From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andrew Hyatt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for removing obsolete packages Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:22:33 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83twmkkv16.fsf@gnu.org> <838u3k9m5d.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1453584175 9139 80.91.229.3 (23 Jan 2016 21:22:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2016 21:22:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 23 22:22:50 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aN5dx-00056G-Fm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 22:22:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58577 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aN5dt-0000vF-7C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:22:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47908) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aN5dq-0000t5-6m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:22:43 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aN5dk-0006BE-RJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:22:39 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e]:35178) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aN5dk-0006BA-Mg; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 16:22:36 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id o6so41765087qkc.2; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:22:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=mrQ2sLbjEZz0SYvv/0LOu50pLzPRDfIY0rDeZmV8f0Y=; b=FWbwhDIstm77ocIl0DQufD1eXWZAFWHsXQrFZPxd78/BRDQXjHfc2cKD6DRPoqzhs2 rqzb+NwCXq7tKw5LmTGwxQuf5b8/LGtMYmwMRGqLUptoSE+WVVymBTdt/7ujUQLeMhDe B6riFIBGERn9hivpn2vOcw27V1ijlU988QllclWsPfycLqEeVdiQU929+clOSZUWsOyf 5FKpT7qOjYGObc5zxqxyHZkgaehxD/NDjNtwb+Xtde319VGYSIqk4yid3cTRRMmmFQwZ sPBZ/zUXqbx3SardhBQ9jDJFPh9MEqbREBiLEgnLt08Wm7s5Uu7MUuibkD3v6io3sJVI lzhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=mrQ2sLbjEZz0SYvv/0LOu50pLzPRDfIY0rDeZmV8f0Y=; b=Q0mmGexeZkgjeL7YlCdCSSMggAe4mlHoXJuRBgJWnMCQFptzYVBHCotq1fK3WHKNTC ZxmvrUWMQAezYwJoh6HzHjG9iotYVODctuZS6dLzHpYZY3d8UM+tZ9+xIOqppn5horRg NUK8VV/iQTsAbUpEwh6IhfP3+YrnKL+xJzmvdPe6PwZ54GPWHvhSExdtatpcKH4jF7nd j73Kp8cvwTUDuvkccAdjXHfdCP1SSkhtGHoFGFDlAtJlwqtKR0PGbh4QQGqwkbqk6aG4 Z6MJSK1LTcl9ZidIR6wGPCB4D5n+q9XTl41w50Xm0KNOYsCxQPqTrNxhqumRd6MxVAwy VkRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOS/XMomzBAMcGWDCXF1/aG/tc/SRfgYPv3hj51JVHHufDfXeheevzG5ipOdv2BnfQ== X-Received: by 10.55.76.84 with SMTP id z81mr12085979qka.17.1453584156290; Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:22:36 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Andrews-MacBook-Pro.local.ahyatt-laptop (cpe-74-73-128-199.nyc.res.rr.com. [74.73.128.199]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a23sm5635282qkj.21.2016.01.23.13.22.34 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 23 Jan 2016 13:22:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Wed, 20 Jan 2016 11:52:20 -0800") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1.50 (darwin) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:198660 Archived-At: John Wiegley writes: >>>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > >> As long as the removal is not done by a program, but by humans, I think >> considering each candidate before producing the list is a reasonable >> compromise. > > Right. I imagine that even without such a list, the process will look > something like this: > > 1. Core developer looks at bug. > 2. Sees it is in "obsolete" code. > 3. Sees it has been "obsolete" for a while. > 4. Asks list, "Hey, can I just delete this code and the bug?" > 5. Hears deafening applause of consent. > 6. Happiness is restored. > > Our biggest complaint about obsolete code is not its existence, but having to > tend to it; and so, this new policy gives us a way to do decisively deal with > it after a certain period of time. > > Likewise, if an obsolete file never has any bugs, I'm not opposed to letting > it stay in "obsolete" forever. And yet, if someone requests that it be removed > after the appropriate amount of time, that's OK too. > > The point is that we get to decide, not a mechanistic process, in the case > that someone knows of a good reason to keep that code around for a few > releases more. I guess I'm more of a fan of mechanistic process since it forces action and decisions, but it sounds like I'm the only one who thinks this way. The process you propose seems fine, and I can or anyone else can aggressively push for obsolete package deletion under it.