From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: bug#22145: 25.0.50; tramp and auto-revert tests hang on OS X Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:05:11 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87y4cqfdi8.fsf@gmx.de> <87r3ihfgkv.fsf@gmx.de> <87d1u16s8t.fsf@gmx.de> <87zix557k2.fsf@gmx.de> <87si2u4uek.fsf@gmx.de> <87mvsjzp1i.fsf@gmx.de> <87h9irz4t7.fsf@gmx.de> <83poxe35nz.fsf@gnu.org> <87wprlrwbk.fsf@gmx.de> Reply-To: John Wiegley NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-=" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1452373543 20084 80.91.229.3 (9 Jan 2016 21:05:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2016 21:05:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, Anders Lindgren , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 09 22:05:36 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aI0ha-0007wk-9e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 22:05:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43028 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aI0hZ-0001Lx-98 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:05:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53374) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aI0hL-0001Lk-Mm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:05:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aI0hI-0005ue-H2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:05:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231]:33711) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aI0hI-0005uU-Ae; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 16:05:16 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-x231.google.com with SMTP id cy9so300661294pac.0; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:05:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:reply-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=YIYShonzJ7i2tCf0Z/eQ2t2gjKy5sIcssip3c2lSlgE=; b=Gnnmyk9pwUIkANrD1OWxdj6nOoEwtjmiddxsPzBB990IWtZoulEFCfjKk/HeqCHKE8 JZsF4txx60qqwmukosMDw8QYpEvIGRHaeC3iHWtbnA5+LO+kLQzzQSxIC/gMFWcj8NP/ EzDdUMET28jN93eIEaXjdIxZIKEz019+2Effca/Gg/ENQtQP42Uh7LBqtc1QuvuetMoa 6JKE3oLlctt0MW7fT862UsjB/Msj76F45/maS87eVHLywUVvNFhHljPaSKvP1Y8hi3Hy tXjOhW7xdFKyLCLG1wu5NmvlZxjLpbJ3iMwQoK9Rc3pM55Z4p9UYHAkXZ+jTR342rpdC u2wA== X-Received: by 10.66.234.200 with SMTP id ug8mr92890896pac.129.1452373515683; Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:05:15 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r83sm13248963pfr.92.2016.01.09.13.05.14 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 09 Jan 2016 13:05:14 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4345F1232B914; Sat, 9 Jan 2016 13:05:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Fri, 08 Jan 2016 01:03:08 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Richard Stallman , Anders Lindgren , michael.albinus@gmx.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197935 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Disposition: inline >>>>> Richard Stallman writes: > A nonfree program tramples the freedom of those who use it. If we were > running MacOS on a computer, it would take away our freedom. Of course, we > don't do that. One thing we should clarify: Mac OS X is Darwin + some proprietary libraries. Darwin is free/libre software, and all its source code is downloadable[1]. This is how the Nix project on Mac is able to be so self-contained. The "OS X" part consists of some properties bits that are either difficult or impossible to build without binaries from Apple. These are the bits that Nix on OS X, for example, is trying hard to eliminate the need for. Who knows, Apple may even release these bits at some point in the future. So, let us not say that "MacOS tramples freedom" and should be eliminated. Rather, the proprietary bits that run on top of Darwin, and the license used by Apple for these bits, are what should be eliminated. And that's a much smaller area of concern than the entirety of the Mac operating system. Darwin is good; OS X restricts user freedom; and I think Emacs on Mac should only be considered bad to the extent it depends on those restrictive parts. Footnotes: [1] http://www.opensource.apple.com/ -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-=--