From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:29:44 -0800 Message-ID: References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <83bn6quugw.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: John Wiegley NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457368227 19733 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 16:30:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:30:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 17:30:20 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1acy2x-0004ml-Oz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:30:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56852 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy2t-0007gj-UE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:30:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55816) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy2d-0007gb-Mb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:29:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy2c-0001aj-Ll for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:29:55 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22c]:34724) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy2X-0001Zi-99; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:29:49 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id fy10so80911214pac.1; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:29:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=uKWwvY5L1w0XAr1G/vji4tf+p9F8Y8hgw+FDrssCKwY=; b=0+d8Jq0ridgnlh63i/g2bDK/KYHIwLqPDYuFBerxe2VVy0zrX9zecpaLRbYQ+OPIVy tZYvrp1zC/oXFdb9eWAMMhwsWJcZgDu5k2hoYGkIQuictk5Y5Yp/zl7D8GvIWcoX3f+m hAZxr3zd6CWYNGEnBjEVqdL8Jdr71w7k1U9DgGnPrsB7+Moik9wJed75eLN6Jxe3RCPK i/fW4ulewLvBe+NDU1pT0z950AiYZ2pB21VpJuUfv4mFopkBS6VBrvFzEykzOfPzTy+Q 1KEIteNrxkH4uOjMcJ+UhJdGu8PL2q8fNTDgXCNh5+WylbsY4K2S90qXbADmbll2iDLs bujg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=uKWwvY5L1w0XAr1G/vji4tf+p9F8Y8hgw+FDrssCKwY=; b=Zyav+Hhe8oUvVqkLlI4MCPM4x8UNqWHwjIPVlaUUht4qH5fxy5mXTAd23g5DaYc6zj RmncuMXSmNbfegSALH/2JJvyeKMZxqR20pBN2zxK3DBL3RSRC+Vh+Bh4w2gLfKMGhytC iHOWqjKrfF6sbjzKGSUEF/0B4XuKohQ1/32kx/WRPFTbQsa23slIqrmE4GXK83+DuLkp qBuX1SjWHLmDTWouVVURT0Ghf+xAvkvO2YHgJjGKea4MnwDy6+t5Srp1fYf/eii+OaON BPnqeJNHZ3OOZNA7o0O4aRmsjbuoowkoITzaFX/gg7SBRlXyWqGGw4f09KP7pOFSVJoM aQEw== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJI2SnFzCefBjIo8ufS/Y2oYX+VbnFtFxLfo3PM3wfKHg6JUyhfC7UCqL/nFiR8lgw== X-Received: by 10.66.63.104 with SMTP id f8mr34533161pas.109.1457368188367; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:29:48 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q85sm25142625pfq.81.2016.03.07.08.29.46 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:29:46 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: John Wiegley Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1DFAB1352622F; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 08:29:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83bn6quugw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:24:31 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.92 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22c X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201053 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > More generally, there's no way Git could replace ChangeLog style entries, > because they frequently include information that is not in the diffs. To say > nothing of the fact that understanding the change from reading Diff hunks is > much harder, and therefore much less efficient, than from reading a log > entry which describes the change in plain English. I'm not saying that commit log entries are not necessary. Having a richly verbose description of a change is always good. I'm just saying that enforcing ChangeLog structure is orthogonal. >> I've never missed not having that ChangeLog data in other projects, of any >> size. > Maybe you rarely need to do any forensics. Me, I do it all the time in > Emacs, and ChangeLog files are a valuable tool in the chest. I do deep forensics in other projects all the time. I've never noticed having or not having a ChangeLog as bearing much on the ease of doing so. What matters more is how well documented a commit is, and how well each commit sticks to doing just one thing. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2