From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: "Nicolas P. Rougier" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Consistent vanilla Emacs Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 19:36:34 +0200 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="96302"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.4.4; emacs 26.3 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 14 19:37:19 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZHnK-000Ow4-4y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 19:37:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52628 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZHnJ-0005bH-6t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 13:37:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41680) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZHmo-0004j9-BI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 13:36:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr ([192.134.164.83]:51046) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZHmm-0007tX-86 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 May 2020 13:36:45 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,392,1583190000"; d="scan'208";a="449751789" Original-Received: from 91-160-114-139.subs.proxad.net (HELO M-E7-NPR.local) ([91.160.114.139]) by mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 14 May 2020 19:36:40 +0200 In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=192.134.164.83; envelope-from=nicolas.rougier@inria.fr; helo=mail2-relais-roc.national.inria.fr X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/14 13:36:40 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -68 X-Spam_score: -6.9 X-Spam_bar: ------ X-Spam_report: (-6.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250266 Archived-At: Thanks for this feedback, I'll wait until you have looked at the code. In the meantime, I'll try to separate default color/face settings from other stuff. Concerning the mode line at the top, it brings all kind of problem (for example when a mode wants to use the header line) and maybe it's not a good idea for a new user. For the font, it would be nice to have a default font shipped with Emacs but I imagine this will make the binary heavier and you need a font license that is compatible. The Roboto Mono font I used is licensed under an Apache 2.0 (which I think is compatible) while, for example, the Fira Code (a nice programming font) is licensed under a SIL Open Font License. I think it is also compatible but I'm not quite sure. For this last one, one advantage is that it is a variable font meaning all the weights are in a single file. Nicolas Stefan Kangas writes: > Hi Nicolas, > > "Nicolas P. Rougier" writes: > >> I've been working on making vanilla Emacs (i.e. no packages installed) more >> consistent and elegant in terms of faces/colors/fonts/size. You can see some >> screenshots at https://github.com/rougier/elegant-emacs. > > Thank you for working on this. As I've already told you in private, I > like some of the fundamental ideas in your proposal, and think it has a > fresh look we could definitely use in GNU Emacs itself. > > Of course, there are some details we need to work out, technically and > in terms of what information to present to the user.[1] RMS has said we > need to include copying and warranty information on the splash screen, > for example. There are also considerations of aesthatics and > consistency. > > For background, there is a thread on a better splash screen here: > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-04/msg01733.html > >> These mockups have been made using org-mode. Probably this can be made >> differently and more efficiently but I'm not too familiar with Emacs internal. > > I think making a prototype in Org-mode is not a bad idea. But we can't > load Org-mode by default, because it is too big and would increase > startup times. So eventually we will need to write patches for Emacs > which produce the desired results. > > I will try to find the time to study your proposal more fully in the > next couple of days. Here are some initial observations from the > screenshots: > > 1. Currently, the consensus seems to be that the menu and tool bar are > important to have. So we can't disable them by default. We would > like to make them look better though, but I don't know if there is > any work being done on that. > > 2. You seem to have moved the mode-line to the top. I don't have an > opinion of that yet. > > 3. We currently don't ship any fonts with GNU Emacs. Maybe we should > consider doing that? It seems to me that many other applications do. > Or maybe we should introduce a stronger set of default fonts for > different systems. > > 4. I like the margins you set on the windows. But it is less efficient > than not using them, because you can see less text on your screen. > That makes me doubt that it's a good choice functionally, even if it > is aesthetically pleasing. Is there an option to enable this only > for certain buffers? > > (BTW, your `elegant.el' includes things like setting `indent-tabs-mode' > to nil. Could you please separate those parts from the graphical > changes? For example by moving them to a separate file. That will > facilitate this discussion, I think.) > > Best regards, > Stefan Kangas > > Footnotes: > [1] Nicolas has agreed to sign the copyright assignment papers, and has > been sent the form to get the process started.