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[84.176.200.6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y20-20020a170906559400b007adbd01c566sm822074ejp.146.2022.10.29.23.45.41 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 29 Oct 2022 23:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62e; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:298793 Archived-At: Since Richard is swamped with mails, I'd like to try and ask some questions here. To start with---I have no problem understanding the shorthands mechanism, that's easy enough. (To be honest, I have to admit I don't like the idea, for reasons I won't go into here, but that's another story. A mechanism will find its uses, I guess :-). My problem is understanding why anyone would think shorthands are an alternative to or substitute for packages. I mean in principle, and regardless of packages being Common Lisp packages or any other form of module system. I simply can't get it. So, I guess my first question is: does anyone here think shorthands are a substitute got packages, and if so could you please share your thought why, and how one would use them for that? If not, it might also be helpful to know why not. And my second question os: Because I don't get it, I'm considering the possibility that shorthands are still incomplete, and some features are missing that would make it a substitute for a module system. Something that's not documented anywhere, apparently. If so, what is it? Or where is it described? Or does someone have an idea? You know what I mean. Finally, here's why I don't get the idea: According to me, shorthands don't address the problem packages/modules/namespaces are trying to do deal with _at all_, which is programming in the large, which means that large programs with many and diverse contributors suffer from name conflicts. The reason why I think shorthands don't address that problem is pretty simple, according to me again: The underlying one obarray can only contain one name per symbol at a time. So, whatever name lands in the obarray must be unique, as it always was. And this of course leads to conflicts. Whether or not the unique name can otherwise be used in abbreviated form or not doesn't change anything in this regard. Or am I going nuts and overlooking the obvious?