From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:00:40 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> <20141205175810.GD3120@thyrsus.com> <87lhmlncb1.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <20141205193643.GB5067@thyrsus.com> <83egsd3kyi.fsf@gnu.org> <871toapbh9.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83ppbuxgxx.fsf@gnu.org> <83mw6yxeij.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418061685 17825 80.91.229.3 (8 Dec 2014 18:01:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2014 18:01:25 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 08 19:01:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy2cX-00027i-PV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:01:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35331 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy2cX-0007O1-FQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:01:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy2cQ-0007Nq-8M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:01:15 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy2cC-0001j2-Si for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:01:10 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:33836) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy2cC-0001iy-Hv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 13:00:56 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xy2cA-0001xQ-Vu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:00:55 +0100 Original-Received: from 198.0.146.153 ([198.0.146.153]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:00:54 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by 198.0.146.153 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:00:54 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Lines: 52 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.0.146.153 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Copies-To: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.130012 (Ma Gnus v0.12) Emacs/25.0.50 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:BFrCUmhvJNXm7DFSm0iZAwLHRAU= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179427 Archived-At: On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:00:52 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Ted Zlatanov >> Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 11:29:37 -0500 >> >> On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 18:08:26 +0200 Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> EZ> What I had in mind was some evidence, even anecdotal one, that people EZ> considered contributing a chunk of docs, but decided against that EZ> because of Texinfo. >> >> It's always been a nasty hurdle for me, discouraging me from writing new >> stuff. I can never remember the syntax (I deal with Markdown and other >> formats all day, and texinfo gets pushed out). EZ> (Some of) the syntax gets taken care of by the various Texinfo mode EZ> commands. We could also add items to the menu, if that's useful. It's just tedious stuff. I get back into it after 15-30 minutes but it's always a context switch. >> and the index and all the other nonsense. EZ> Indexing is part of the real effort -- it's a human activity for which EZ> there's no automated replacement. Like writing the text itself -- EZ> there's no alternative to doing that yourself, in any documentation EZ> system. I tend to prefer freeform tagging, but agree in general. EZ> But I will offer you a deal: write plain ASCII, and I will add EZ> markup. Deal? I was answering your earlier question about evidence. Writing ASCII docs and asking you to merge them is not fair to you. On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:14:37 -0500 "Eric S. Raymond" wrote: ESR> When I use terms like "ugly" and "heavyweight", misfeatures like the ESR> duplication of structure in sections and nodes are part of what I have ESR> in mind. They are annoying, but not fundamentally broken. You need something like them, as Eli mentioned. ESR> Ted is what's normal out there. It's the handful of people on this list ESR> so used to Texinfo that it has worn grooves in their brains who are ESR> the outliers. Come on... no need for that. Ted