From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "John Wiegley" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Contributors and maintainers Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:05:46 -0700 Organization: New Artisans LLC Message-ID: References: <87si59wj42.fsf@T420.taylan> <878u6znii9.fsf@T420.taylan> <877fmjj9p6.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87zizfm2dq.fsf@T420.taylan> <871tcr7yvq.fsf@fastmail.com> <87mvvfm0bd.fsf@T420.taylan> <56250803.5080601@cs.ucla.edu> <87a8ren5ys.fsf@T420.taylan> <56259BB1.3070908@cs.ucla.edu> <878u6ykmvt.fsf@T420.taylan> <87h9llvo98.fsf@members.fsf.org> <5626622A.3090707@yandex.ru> <87zizdijbp.fsf@T420.taylan> <56267302.7050606@yandex.ru> <87io61igyu.fsf@T420.taylan> <56267CDF.6010201@yandex.ru> <87wpuhh15s.fsf@T420.taylan> <562683B9.1060305@yandex.ru> <83y4exe71v.fsf@gnu.org> <87zizcfzna.fsf@T420.taylan> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445447198 10801 80.91.229.3 (21 Oct 2015 17:06:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 17:06:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?=22Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1?= =?utf-8?Q?=2FKammer=22?=) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 21 19:06:38 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZowqJ-0000Eh-1l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 19:06:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52947 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZowqI-0004qg-HC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:06:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54742) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zowpn-0004nG-9c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:06:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zowpj-0006q8-CJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:05:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]:36206) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zowpj-0006pu-3B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:05:51 -0400 Original-Received: by pacfv9 with SMTP id fv9so62418877pac.3 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:05:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:organization:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Uk3fCWZlpD1BlIAm4Fy+mmiBYDk5csK5xrGXxWRkReo=; b=aFyrZsIYRO9xckvo5oBfHlsOfjQ3hxVHXnFIwA8PFNWPxJCmKUN3xiTXmy0FC8VqTM 85oD26kdsi0RBsKxIaYqc5egEErXVkvojn0ZUxFN17kKyyn4K4Zvf6Q/oM2C58xQsKYq RDKxCSsMdrnZhqBSmTO+LeBSlscskGucmvweHOJUQoGcGZtw4Urwr1Hum7mJoRqMCDnd F2FIjyvaYzZrql4rNSSxOXIJLB7RQc8IU+B+V54dWeY35hRBVLaBp7qgThw9522Szy+R 5PTwQ7aLwCDSFc2bJZ3rbbzdzpKucaiMPvCliMxNhMslFWYPNkWFfp/6jpbqHt0RhTh7 XnAQ== X-Received: by 10.68.185.132 with SMTP id fc4mr11613015pbc.96.1445447150427; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:05:50 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ug4sm10130732pac.11.2015.10.21.10.05.49 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:05:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4A928F5B32F1; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:05:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87zizcfzna.fsf@T420.taylan> ("Taylan Ulrich \=\?utf-8\?Q\?\=5C\=22Bay\=C4\=B1rl\=C4\=B1\=2FKammer\=5C\=22\=22's\?\= message of "Wed, 21 Oct 2015 09:29:13 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?=22Bay?= =?utf-8?Q?=C4=B1rl=C4=B1=2FKammer=22?=), emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192299 Archived-At: >>>>> Taylan Ulrich "Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1/Kammer" wr= ites: > The lack of respect I'm receiving is *not* of the kind where someone is > being actively nasty, insulting, etc. It's a kind where a person's very > voice is being denied, not even countered. That's pretty grave. Taylan, I don't understand. Looking at emacs-devel and the bug tracker, I s= ee that many people have responded to you. Here are the reply counts: 26 Eli Zaretskii 9 Paul Eggert 9 Dmitry Gutov 7 Random832 3 Michael Albinu 3 John Wiegley 3 David Kastrup 3 Artur Malabarb 1 Stephen J. Tur 1 Nicolas Richar 1 Daniel Colasci Eli has taken the time to write back to you 26 times! This doesn't even cou= nt the sub-threads where we discuss meta issues not directly related to your issue. Can you share with me what your real concern is? Do you worry that Emacs is not secure enough? Is their an active threat of some kind in your environme= nt? Perhaps there's something about your use case we're not seeing, that would explain the greater importance of this issue to you. We've been living with the current shell-quote-argument for literally *decades*, which might explain why we're not instantly ready to make changes -- even though Eli has made a change to the docstring at your request. How does that constitute "no response"? I am confused. Also, it does not help to reiterate how clear and cogent your arguments have been. Until we both agree, "clarity" and "cogency" have not been achieved. These attributes must exist *between* disputants; they cannot be determined= by one side alone. We have all been working to achieve clarity, but I fear this has been misunderstood as a stubborn rejection of your ideas. John