From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Concurrency, again Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:01:35 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <86k2dk77w6.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <9D64B8EA-DB52-413D-AE6A-264416C391F3@iotcl.com> <83int1g0s5.fsf@gnu.org> <83twckekqq.fsf@gnu.org> <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1476295364 11952 195.159.176.226 (12 Oct 2016 18:02:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2016 18:02:44 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (darwin) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 12 20:02:39 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1buNrI-00013N-Eh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 20:02:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35036 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1buNrH-0003p0-8U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:02:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37155) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1buNqf-0003om-Qw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:01:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1buNqd-0006AL-R1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:01:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]:34194) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1buNqY-00067x-QR; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 14:01:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-x230.google.com with SMTP id rz1so30424041pab.1; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:01:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=ygxi89u57aTicpbF24zkRelcIxi0O0jv1Mfznai9Xds=; b=RPPxYRUq1mViH/9lPZx4sDZGY8c9dl4ojJEwlv3WjB8lQKdRQXJIZnkKhXrk9//XRN p6l5sVEI2QvSfUvdgUy7o8+2tL5Cp5altIfj9ZmLfMdO+M5yIUfVOFMTscvP7qTBkY9S lkvLZ7M1TeLrZ0hcSYoHm2nPNI/LopQpcES7uQCwZEcdJRbS9eaV4E4lfrVZIylWcJ0o +7jfhah9EGApvXMxm+QogYRKviy1Y7HkrS+NkQz793xADBXxTBVdjEQjiQVdt3XETHxU 0J7h8rIPuf4Ck2WVmDu4bOJauSKfQy6i+UGJBRF6SyrpKqiq6DZ92qqWtfcuqGrGiStK 5wXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=ygxi89u57aTicpbF24zkRelcIxi0O0jv1Mfznai9Xds=; b=Dw1Sva+G/6mNacwRWDGnu0Z2fsX/DNxlC6uBfxD9bf74Jw9f8gNUUIynXmEPq/oVF5 1Qp/3SoSbEyiHPrUDjQIiseKvNKyFmHGdA6tpML+M6CPbEbnmIqdAshjgRkuONEYb1K5 3iYr5EiDbI/XehitxVNpsJIHg+XLmHwdKM3ICkLLMEVDwngyCHqRP2ubajUSplO/4BMz 6wcr3QQX+ZeklS3wlREzPh16FkT3FzRf5RXEBtKg5yqbRWm3j2ThfNnKVis8F5PCDwHF 60tivUikcd9fkfE/Z09TmmLrymeGD+Gm4KQbOqkZ6HKisy/6TSeFiqy8UbytHYNdU7FH kSfQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RkBZgw9zqaowZNKgtXrOeKCUTtbYnjeVRcjd/IC/LzDCQgTpb7AVl1HJjX6bQNhAg== X-Received: by 10.66.237.133 with SMTP id vc5mr3076534pac.24.1476295301647; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w65sm13298196pfd.48.2016.10.12.11.01.40 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:01:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id B595A2E68757; Wed, 12 Oct 2016 11:01:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83mvi9a3mh.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 12 Oct 2016 20:17:26 +0300") Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:208181 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > I urge you to have a look at the sources on the concurrency branch. There= 's > no threading, in the usual sense of that word: at any given time, only a > single thread is running. It's not at all what you seem to be imagining. > Think about idle timers that run without your having to do anything to st= art > them: that's what we have there, in a nutshell, plus a few niceties. More akin to green threading then? Your point about it not affecting modules that don't opt-in is well taken. lexical-binding was introduced as major change, but didn't affect any old c= ode because it had to be enabled explicitly. This allowed us to gradually phase= in its use over several years. If something like that could be done for threading, some of my fears would be alleviated. I'd also like to point out a thread that occurred on reddit recently, attempting to widen this discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/56q8ih/john_wiegley_id_much_rather_= we_reexamine_the/ It's interesting to note how many people agree with caution, or don't claim= to need threading, vs. those calling for its inclusion. I know many users who don't want Emacs locking up on them. This is the problem that needs solving. Is threading in Emacs Lisp the answer? I still don't know. =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGcBAEBCgAGBQJX/np/AAoJEMFE2PTxn+YwDFoL/3aYjgU9LeliFixEztgRNTtV QqBhCJOJbj6GC/OxOxrtEdm8AqgdN/RIfOz6FofzBc80SEHri1cdfDpRCQighxct UV/4Gn6ernBEiEkIEE7FDBf97p5WwX89QCMFy7OLQuyygFpNFggPJ0ZDQJ6+U2iP SkL2/WODolqGJKUQKocif8TYwlJxDps9pHWUZ/2db+oy51Dbxo6DJSa8giKzk0DB s/ujs8Mcc07bhlT/vEW4RViMrWR7yqhsVjMcQZ6mB1QPeKKcnfkQl8GsSJ68c6LV grlrLaeynfcL/VmnuAGpx+rwLzKMvk6DHaYnoq/DAUhFb3SaNn0ykWYY/JRpNbj6 B83lxgPQHzBR69curIV4TQpWZ+C1HPzNH7ErNIiOeK0CvHZkZkwW6azGz3lNQkrZ Hf3swMF2g8nmq91u/w3ZM0L9N3NYu9mG4CRl4UVkryVoA7ti8+8F8DmDUZPaoofw 36sX1S9gxfliVDL9tSa1IoA+gHzgxKBY15O1IAC+fg== =DPXN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--