From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What have the Romans done for us? (Bazaar) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 16:06:57 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20100405145637.GA3248@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001e680f0a4cc4b95e04838562b7 X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1270509352 14866 80.91.229.12 (5 Apr 2010 23:15:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 23:15:52 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Chad Brown , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 06 01:15:51 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NyvWG-0004q2-Td for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 01:15:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40317 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NyvWG-0005wb-2e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:15:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NyvNp-0002hh-98 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:07:05 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=33643 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NyvNm-0002fn-Iz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:07:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NyvNj-0000BK-Te for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:07:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gw0-f41.google.com ([74.125.83.41]:40119) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NyvNj-0000An-Bb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:06:59 -0400 Original-Received: by gwb15 with SMTP id 15so3663201gwb.0 for ; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 16:06:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:received:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=FBAr8l/N/8elfkzXt/oQnTUGQ0Pzgno8rJaaA+o+i/s=; b=v8MlvAKlOGQkSGh7iY4s5R92PVp1EcDmvMRhS26beSR3SpqDwtpcvn9Gn+NwZCOeDh zJWOB2VBZdGP4CgZQR2XIcyIyBkYW3O2b6rRjvd7/Pct7C1rQmbCXBFmcEjFMsSQF99W JghgJr+KMTArvA9C0EyIv0O2CwoWHRP2owW1s= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=EWmDT/eZNTtKnsMcIIncgbc234saUyyIe9SsZx8SKEbb+D0Eh/0rH+/aDtBxeLBob0 pN23eDEL10HLzgDh9KHEuANNn8cL9IcX/ycccmoTiElulTKPRFsD0ZDO3TR5r/3txJ40 Y/fnA9ps0ijlsryHdUEFII7Y8WO1rjti1yFVQ= Original-Received: by 10.150.11.5 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Apr 2010 16:06:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Original-Received: by 10.151.117.1 with SMTP id u1mr7095732ybm.200.1270508817790; Mon, 05 Apr 2010 16:06:57 -0700 (PDT) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123232 Archived-At: --001e680f0a4cc4b95e04838562b7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > While I'm no real fan of bazaar, wait until we want to merge the > > gtk-tabs branch, or the bidi branch, or the lexbind branch, or (even > > better) more than one of those into the mainline, and I think you'll > > see a a big difference versus cvs. > > No, *he* (like most people) won't. And it's not going to be > significantly easier than when we did it in the (near) past, because we > already used to do it in a DVCS (namely Arch) thanks to Miles's mirror. > > But yes, for the person handling the merge (and even more so for the > person who maintains the branch until it gets merged), it helps a lot. I take your point, but my thought (perhaps not well-enough explained) was that he (and we) would feel the benefits of it even if it was only vicariously avoiding pain. Let me put this another way: If multi-tty was any indication, the sorts of efforts represented by bidi, gtk-tabs, concurrent, and guile would be suppressed/discouraged/obscured by a non-distributed system like cvs compared to the ``here's my live repo'' state we have now, and we have been very conservative in our adoption of dvcs system benefits (as evidenced by the periodic ``why are we still doing this crud if we're using a dvcs?'' threads). In the meantime, I'm now using bzr, because of emacs -- which I believe was the (regardless of technical merit) reason that we adopted the system. Probably at least several others here are as well, so there's hope for it to improve, as long as the growing pains aren't too onerous. Thanks for your time. --001e680f0a4cc4b95e04838562b7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> While I'm no real fan of bazaar, wait until we w= ant to merge the
> gtk-tabs branch, or the bidi branch, or the lexbind branch, or (even > better) more than one of those into the mainline, and I think you'= ll
> see a a big difference versus cvs.

No, *he* (like most people) won't. =A0And it's not going to b= e
significantly easier than when we did it in the (near) past, because we
already used to do it in a DVCS (namely Arch) thanks to Miles's mirror.=

But yes, for the person handling the merge (and even more so for the
person who maintains the branch until it gets merged), it helps a lot.

I take your point, but my thought (perhaps not = well-enough explained) was that he (and we) would feel the benefits of it e= ven if it was only vicariously avoiding pain.

Let me put this another way: =A0If multi-tty was any in= dication, the sorts of efforts represented by bidi, gtk-tabs, concurrent, a= nd guile would be suppressed/discouraged/obscured by a non-distributed syst= em like cvs compared to the ``here's my live repo'' state we ha= ve now, and we have been very conservative in our adoption of dvcs system b= enefits (as evidenced by the periodic ``why are we still doing this crud if= we're using a dvcs?'' threads).

In the meantime, I'm now using bzr, because of emac= s -- which I believe was the (regardless of technical merit) reason that we= adopted the system. =A0Probably at least several others here are as well, = so there's hope for it to improve, as long as the growing pains aren= 9;t too onerous.

Thanks for your time.
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