From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "John Wiegley" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs project mission (was Re: "If you're still seeing problems, please reopen.") Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2019 14:32:50 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20191118175639.08d02820@jabberwock.cb.piermont.com> <874kz0pa9y.fsf@gnus.org> <87sgmjyn60.fsf@gmx.de> <87imnezyt5.fsf@gmx.de> <835zjdz58t.fsf@gnu.org> <20191121175927.GA4836@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="210633"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (darwin) Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, rms@gnu.org, perry@piermont.com, michael.albinus@gmx.de, dgutov@yandex.ru, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 21 22:33:30 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iXu4w-000seb-6Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 22:33:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45982 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iXu4v-0001UJ-1e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:33:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50754) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iXu4n-0001PN-PT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:33:22 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:38982) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iXu4n-0007NY-FL; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:33:21 -0500 Original-Received: from auth1-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.227]:46305) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA256:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1iXu4d-0001Gb-5z; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:33:11 -0500 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailauth.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB5F2278D; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:33:10 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:33:10 -0500 X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedufedrudehvddgudehfecutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvffujgffkfhffgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomhepfdflohhh nhcuhghivghglhgvhidfuceojhhohhhnfiesghhnuhdrohhrgheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpe hnvgifrghrthhishgrnhhsrdgtohhmnecukfhppeeliedrudelrdduleekrdeftdenucfr rghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepjhhohhhnfidomhgvshhmthhprghuthhhphgvrhhsoh hnrghlihhthidqieekjeektdelgeegqddujeejheefkeduiedqjhhohhhnfieppehgnhhu rdhorhhgsehnvgifrghrthhishgrnhhsrdgtohhmnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: from localhost (96-19-96-19-198-30.cpe.sparklight.net [96.19.198.30]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0100B306005B; Thu, 21 Nov 2019 16:33:09 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <20191121175927.GA4836@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Thu, 21 Nov 2019 17:59:27 +0000") Mail-Followup-To: Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , ofv@wanadoo.es, rms@gnu.org, perry@piermont.com, michael.albinus@gmx.de, dgutov@yandex.ru, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242596 Archived-At: >>>>> "AM" == Alan Mackenzie writes: AM> Their way of making money is by immorally, surreptitiously, and in many AM> cases illegally collecting their users' personal data and selling it on. One thing the free software movement should strengthen is selling users on the merits of its ideals, and not try to distinguish itself by painting the other side in such a lopsidedly evil light. I know many people who work at Apple; I know family who work at Apple. All of my own hardware is from Apple. Yet they do not, as the above sentence might suggest, gather together in dark rooms to render kitten fat over bubbling cauldrons. If that sounds hyperbolic, it gives you some idea of how statements like the above come across to someone who is sympathetic both to users (who of course desire complete freedom) and corporations (who desire to stay in business, and are beholden to more entities than just their users). Could large companies do better? Of course they could. The Free Software Foundation might even be the one to show them the path to a better way. But vilifying the opposition does not make your case in the eyes of those who don't already agree with you. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2