From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Filipp Gunbin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Recentish C-s M-y change Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2020 18:05:36 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87r1na4tyu.fsf@gnus.org> <87tus6tj7s.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87a6txigm1.fsf@gnus.org> <874kk5lzew.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87eej8ifll.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17538"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (darwin) Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 30 16:07:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kud48-0004TH-G8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 16:07:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55804 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kud47-0001Ea-FU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 10:07:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44236) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kud2l-0000jV-UA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 10:05:43 -0500 Original-Received: from wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.21]:40615) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kud2j-0007LU-Ea for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 10:05:43 -0500 Original-Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D7FC57; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 10:05:39 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 30 Dec 2020 10:05:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=0csKgCyrdnBh782osP7J5gxk5r rdAgo0TUQ9QmhBo5M=; b=eFmrrf6dz/9LwF5537oDljxShW6lpRYTcIguro2K1w 2yt2U+NL4HslskYDkNTnWm/XAUVMkK4HDpKqxPoYU+wTqH01rM6m8JdBSYaHNqnZ oVxmxyknti3TY2FGsXTd+7Vy75BhJeUiJnLqj+khejQCEgGyjaYgNC3DzNsexsKR zNAU/VdJIJU4dNjOuIZDCR/OKIxrg74OQ0lKaxXt2EfaG1l4e9rLId/tzrouKhfY Yw909+Ez1bDHdvB/7S1QzYO19BVeTTn629JuCAqTqS95WKod0G5v5lpq5xYYskWg Ja3dkfEcHQVYzpKwHC06ljuvAn8Xjs7RqDgmTnVAzZmw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=0csKgC yrdnBh782osP7J5gxk5rrdAgo0TUQ9QmhBo5M=; b=aebuXkeSXQmYFTo1EFItgF xL61z7KQsWNMlz22QFzoeoCa2H347Fc7i3kHUfAGdIAyCTzR5SUm9z3ie+0IWyfD pDqzpuSm+vvCyJRt26Qmpmsys2DM1wpebnPUWVCaAn4eolhRLRz5csJmMuo6ZTpv dqIONf+yLwm4FKJL5e1pD778TYy347NHGxCJbnAFXxMtUtiJp8DskMsn56Xl1vQb 7D0fmx/w8tWDhdTjFYp+XFZfQpCzYA/EL8gG6RC3mM8Nd3ZDjbuiG0bxWffOg+XT t2pWimIybxmSxlsa38jFPdxb21t/0vLhpIR2TEl8qZ1gP51m7TTJSAugc/Dz4dbg == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedujedrvddvfedgjedvucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvufgjfhgffffkgggtsehttdertddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpefhihhlihhp phcuifhunhgsihhnuceofhhguhhnsghinhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdhfmheqnecuggftrf grthhtvghrnhepvdevkeffvdeuvefhuddtjeehkedvueefveettddtveduudfgieffieev ieevhfdtnecukfhppeekgedrvddtgedrudelfedruddtieenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiii gvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehfghhunhgsihhnsehfrghsthhmrghi lhdrfhhm X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: from fgunbin.local (unknown [84.204.193.106]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id EA5771080057; Wed, 30 Dec 2020 10:05:37 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <87eej8ifll.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (Juri Linkov's message of "Tue, 29 Dec 2020 21:20:38 +0200") Mail-Followup-To: Juri Linkov , Lars Ingebrigtsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.21; envelope-from=fgunbin@fastmail.fm; helo=wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -26 X-Spam_score: -2.7 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GAPPY_SUBJECT=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:262127 Archived-At: On 29/12/2020 21:20 +0200, Juri Linkov wrote: >>> Such changes of keybindings are not something new: in 2011 we changed >>> 'C-s M-y' from 'isearch-yank-kill' to 'isearch-yank-pop', >> >> But this continued to work for the most frequent case of yanking last >> kill? > > If 'C-s C-y' is easier to type than 'C-s M-y', shouldn't then > more beneficial to have 'C-s C-y' the most frequent case of > yanking last kill? It's not easier. Some time ago I learned to type all modifiers with one hand, and a letter with another. This sometimes may be slower, but in the end it's more comfortable, as there's no need to press distant keys by one hand. With this way of typing, C-s C-y and C-s M-y are equivalent. > A good example of the change for better that makes these keybindings > more consistent and easier to use: > > C-M-y isearch-yank-char > C-M-d isearch-del-char > > and > > C-w isearch-yank-word-or-char > C-M-w isearch-yank-symbol-or-char > > If it was painful at first, how easy it was to adapt? These are good changes IMO, they make sense, it's just that I would prefer to have the new binding while preserving the old, so I could re-learn smootly. I still occasionally type the wrong key. >>> Of course, if after trying 'C-s C-y', you'd still prefer the old 'C-s M-y', >>> we could revert this change, but this would be a step backwards. >> >> The new workflow is "C-s C-y M-y M-y...", the old one is "C-s M-y >> M-y...". If we could make the first M-y just insert the last kill, then >> both workflows can live together, no? It's just the prompt after C-s >> M-y which annoys me currently. > > Do you suggest to show the prompt only after 'C-s M-y M-y'? > OT1H, it would have an unexpected effect for users who expect > 'C-s M-y M-y M-y ...' to continue inserting more items from > the kill-ring. OTOH, for users who want the prompt it would be > too inconvenient first to insert the last kill then show > the prompt. No, I was suggesting that the promting command be put on some other key binding, like C-s TAB maybe (it inserts TAB currently, but that can be done with C-s C-q TAB). And both C-s C-y M-y M-y.. and C-s M-y M-y... may do the same - insert last kill, then continue with previous ones. This way everybody can learn new binding. > Ok, since everyone wants the old keybinding back, I'll restore > isearch-yank-pop to old code, and also add a new command > 'isearch-yank-from-kill-ring', but unbound because there is > no free key in isearch-mode. Thanks!