From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2022 06:33:09 +0100 Message-ID: References: <25a8a3a6-81c8-3fbc-434d-fb1b24ae1d62@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1842"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: eller.helmut@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 03 06:34:09 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oqSrg-0000KZ-VF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 03 Nov 2022 06:34:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oqSqt-0005YD-4N; Thu, 03 Nov 2022 01:33:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oqSqo-0005WV-U0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Nov 2022 01:33:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oqSqn-00011C-DS; Thu, 03 Nov 2022 01:33:14 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id sc25so2345424ejc.12; Wed, 02 Nov 2022 22:33:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OcmRPxElN0EeZE1sdiRtnZ4ep9UuZYpkN192CtQo8WM=; b=VhEcbvL/w/TPmF5W72T/32WmsvFN8oM1PsqS4kbCWkne/uRORpeKTh/JU7StmIPwVN gH4FqBMEdds0YsV13Ulm5azkWJDvbZOadHWH6ROtMfz1Ws5I36IibkT+WbnYuABKI7u7 BPF8lX9wBcwzyeEuJX+uqbCTt/a3L7sx9vclUSrFWXuPMV8RmC8M5/aOv3sY57Iovzj+ YaJ7BQ1CfOqDvoZKA+AlsZyL1+vAhla4Sencjz0mtDdF8jVssVMrGgmsXObEhSJ775nX 5PvazoyCXygQ0RXy06hrcnavYLOnTq2/5GLLPsriKitplnfpHnLacg+R2aRZcFZxYiWe e+MQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=OcmRPxElN0EeZE1sdiRtnZ4ep9UuZYpkN192CtQo8WM=; b=wjTkqYavdnkkvDN+8pL0YPlO/c9Db+lCQrEnD2d/7c+F1iom6hU+WTzXdFkNmg0vET LaIDgvo3HjcwVINF59+BICQHytBrfUH2LNK2x2Aix3jn4wU7wrdKh3/042iy5jBzYgSn p6b7H1FHUa6uupU9fQK5MBruqg2Wo/Nn36+/Ni4wU5jEYOsyMeCnc8jNJ4Jcom9Q8pnN l5G1r5S0gcgpJjkOjd3gyXYwWcGD/C/fewYi1QVWUGeMyvBVbOeXV3GNeQDcQRq/jZiu q45Q/K6qMqT11wc+CcaieCsqovhd8o2OKknXmSGpVVRl6s5tIrEXNqCDcw1fU3JNJf3R SFYA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf18s9uxB1j2+aZ3ZkN7pcuEwYlf1jf3nzW0uL6sSEmUF5qe0th6 1jUl6LE7lpnwFVNIOKtVm7Iol4XTrwgHtA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM7SEYCrpu25DPOAhMv+zZZIKE/ib1iysHb5CgOQwFfRhcN60jeGZYKNy+le/iGdhy4Hqw9S0w== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:5a63:b0:7ad:ac42:150 with SMTP id my35-20020a1709065a6300b007adac420150mr27194256ejc.583.1667453591102; Wed, 02 Nov 2022 22:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Mini.fritz.box (pd9e36546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [217.227.101.70]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i6-20020a1709063c4600b0078df3b4464fsm41230ejg.19.2022.11.02.22.33.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 02 Nov 2022 22:33:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:17:18 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62d; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:299059 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > But let me add, as notorious trouble-maker, that shorthands consist of > > problems only. > > If you say that, I guess you don't see how they are useful. I think I understand pretty well when they are useful, in the same way as defvar-alias and such are useful. Anything going beyond that I consider potentially harmful. > I would like to write to explain it, but I can't do that just now. I > am far more overloaded than usual. I am backlogged by about 1500 > emails MORE than I was backlogged 10 days ago, and struggling to deal > with that. No problem, take your time. > There is no hurry about this issue, so please stop pressuring people > to rush it. Let's wait a couple of weeks, so that I have time to read > the article about CL packages that you refered to, and then write > something about it. I'm not pressuring anyone intentially. I don't even know how that could be. By the existence of the branch with CL packages? Or by asking questions and giving, hopefully rational, arguments? And even if someone feels pressured, honestly, so what? And how is that related to your personal time situation, in the first place? I at least am not expecting or waiting for some kind of verdict. I do what I feel like doing to the degree possible. Take it or leave it, so to say. > > Let's see. I hope that ideology doesn't play a role in Emacs, > > I don't see that it directly enters into this issue, though. That's good.