From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ELPA policy Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 13:38:48 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87ziyuaqhl.fsf@petton.fr> <87fv0labbf.fsf@web.de> <87y4eda0kl.fsf@petton.fr> <22074.42230.156669.584780@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <87ziyoxvdp.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83k2psnzyh.fsf@gnu.org> <87mvuorz7n.fsf@gmail.com> <8337wfon3f.fsf@gnu.org> <56401834.8080402@yandex.ru> <83ziynma4s.fsf@gnu.org> <5640C6A0.5010709@yandex.ru> <83twovm9es.fsf@gnu.org> <87ziynx70f.fsf@Rainer.invalid> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447105214 3735 80.91.229.3 (9 Nov 2015 21:40:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 21:40:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Achim Gratz Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 09 22:40:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvuAe-0005sf-DI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 22:40:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55734 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZvuAd-0003Vv-TV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 16:40:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58898) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zvu9n-0002ca-KD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 16:39:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zvu9j-0002xQ-Gt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 16:39:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231]:35999) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zvu9j-0002xL-Bs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 16:39:15 -0500 Original-Received: by pacdm15 with SMTP id dm15so186924978pac.3 for ; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 13:39:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=VL7B3tsKFMvQcIhdbSjGcMXxKD9WlWMRL0SR2ognaEA=; b=A42muxOqwPcJVzZPnY8m3fbGumO3+oXw3dsEqOnxAucaTTHaRmRYzsoQ/sn+kr7CPo G7WErfiWnlY2RmJV8sy+qU3rVIINRXegEnjdlR1s+dU3+LXRa2VC9PTWcjkHogGC/Lo0 LhqXnRGmUUlaIxVNFXE4RdcAQkF9rBbtCF3y3xphUoIFt/NtbJYth4fkt0qufohhiRRw hHZCybYiVT7a4ZxF0xsQ43Iyh3CSzmMQLXIIvK4x2PQIN3nTGZMHWQj9fuJ6ktWd1uX5 ZTDoOkZjS7Tvcif5M6eatxaJUVN3Xnvsdm8bA/117BJU49HPrz2QfVG9XPnXOdp1Prd1 RUYA== X-Received: by 10.66.246.225 with SMTP id xz1mr95018pac.27.1447105154723; Mon, 09 Nov 2015 13:39:14 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.attlocal.net (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fk8sm10366pab.33.2015.11.09.13.39.13 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Nov 2015 13:39:14 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.attlocal.net (Postfix, from userid 501) id 876121047BBE1; Mon, 9 Nov 2015 13:39:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87ziynx70f.fsf@Rainer.invalid> (Achim Gratz's message of "Mon, 09 Nov 2015 21:17:04 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Achim Gratz , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:193759 Archived-At: >>>>> Achim Gratz writes: > They could (and probably should) effectively be in the build environment as > well. In other words, I would try to not pull them into the release tarball > at the last possible moment. One thing that would make difficult is to test > interactions between such "external core" packages and here I have to agree > with Eli that this has potential for degradation of quality. Could this be solved by branching ELPA leading up to a release -- this being the "frozen ELPA" that we do integration against before cutting the tarball -- while cherry-picking fixes in from master? I think the way we proceed here would be similar to what we do for Emacs itself. > You'd do that with branches if it really becomes necessary. I don't really > see why submodules could not be used, except for the extra rope they give > you to hang yourself with. Any other solution is going to have the same > basic complexity beneath and the potential to not work on some platform or > other. A submodule doesn't allow us to have "Org + some-patch-not-yet-in-Org". > I maintain that ELPA should benefit Emacs users first. I'm intrigued; could you clarify this a bit more? I saw what you wrote in response to Eli, but that didn't really help. Specifically, do you have a scenario in mind that is better for users and worse for developers? >> b. That we move "external" packages from core into ELPA, starting with the >> really big ones; > ...after the necessary changes to Emacs' build system and package.el are > architected and implemented. Agreed. John