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* Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
@ 2007-11-06 12:02 CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 12:14 ` CHENG Gao
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: CHENG Gao @ 2007-11-06 12:02 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

My last successfully build was on May 26. Yesterday I gave it another
try and found something.

I reported twice before about failing owing to undefined symbols in
macterm.c. The problem is from new mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event
introduced by June 7 checkin (revision 1.47.2.56, Wed Jun 7 18:04:51
2006 UTC).

The code:
,----
| static void
| 	 	 mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event (code, buf)
| 	 	      UniChar code;
| 	 	      struct input_event *buf;
| 	 	 {
| 	 	   int charset_id, c1, c2;
| 	 	 
| 	 	   if (code < 0x80)
| 	 	     {
| 	 	       buf->kind = ASCII_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
| 	 	       buf->code = code;
| 	 	     }
| 	 	   else if (code < 0x100)
| 	 	     {
| 	 	       if (code < 0xA0)
| 	 	         charset_id = CHARSET_8_BIT_CONTROL;
| 	 	       else
| 	 	         charset_id = charset_latin_iso8859_1;
| 	 	       buf->kind = MULTIBYTE_CHAR_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
| 	 	       buf->code = MAKE_CHAR (charset_id, code, 0);
| 	 	     }
| 	 	   else
| 	 	     {
| 	 	       if (code < 0x2500)
| 	 	         charset_id = charset_mule_unicode_0100_24ff,
| 	 	           code -= 0x100;
| 	 	       else if (code < 0x33FF)
| 	 	         charset_id = charset_mule_unicode_2500_33ff,
| 	 	           code -= 0x2500;
| 	 	       else if (code >= 0xE000)
| 	 	         charset_id = charset_mule_unicode_e000_ffff,
| 	 	           code -= 0xE000;
| 	 	       c1 = (code / 96) + 32, c2 = (code % 96) + 32;
| 	 	       buf->kind = MULTIBYTE_CHAR_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
| 	 	       buf->code = MAKE_CHAR (charset_id, c1, c2);
| 	 	     }
| 	 	 }
`----

CHARSET_8_BIT_CONTROL, charset_mule_unicode_0100_24ff,
charset_mule_2500_33ff, charset_mule_unicode_e000_ffff used here are
defined in any place.

I reverted this funciton to previous as:
,----
| static void
| mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event (code, buf)
|      UniChar code;
|      struct input_event *buf;
| {
|   int charset_id, c1, c2;
| 
|   if (code < 0x80)
|     buf->kind = ASCII_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
|   else
|     buf->kind = MULTIBYTE_CHAR_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
|   buf->code = code;
| }
`----

Now macterm.c can be built.

Another error (for building latest cvs source) is "Undefined symbols:
_res_init_9". I googled and found a workaround, that's do

,----
| export LIBS=-lresolv
`----

before "make bootstrap".
(Original URL:
http://groups.google.com.ua/group/gnu.emacs.bug/msg/70a2759b8d6069e1 )

Thus I can build emacs-unicode-2 successfully.

Emacs running from terminal works ok. But Emacs.app (running from
Finder) is not usable. For every keystroke (keyboard input or mouse
click) I have to wait for several minutes. I think it's owing to my
brutal revert of mac_set_unicode_keystrok_event which makes
do_keystrokes dysfunction.
Another possibility is workaround of "export LIBS=-lresolv". I have no
idea. Or owing to merge of multi-tty code?

From reading this group (gmane.emacs.devel) I know Carbon port is
treated as dead (really?). Even though I think I should report my
finding in case someone is willing to try to get it work again.

If Carbon port is treated as dead, and emacs-app (Cocoa port,
http://emacs-app.sf.net) works well, is it possible that emacs-app be
merged (as a branch in cvs or git repo) thus we MacOSX users can have an
evolving Emacs?

Sorry for disturbing everybody.

-- 
Homo sum, humani being nil a me alienum puto

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:02 Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX CHENG Gao
@ 2007-11-06 12:14 ` CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 12:29 ` Kenichi Handa
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: CHENG Gao @ 2007-11-06 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

*On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:02:20 +0800
* Also spracht CHENG Gao <chenggao@gmail.com>:


> Emacs running from terminal works ok. But Emacs.app (running from
> Finder) is not usable. For every keystroke (keyboard input or mouse
> click) I have to wait for several minutes. I think it's owing to my

s/minutes/seconds/

-- 
Nosce te ipsum

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:02 Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 12:14 ` CHENG Gao
@ 2007-11-06 12:29 ` Kenichi Handa
  2007-11-06 13:52   ` CHENG Gao
                     ` (2 more replies)
  2007-11-06 12:34 ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Jason Rumney
  2007-11-07 18:30 ` CHENG Gao
  3 siblings, 3 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Kenichi Handa @ 2007-11-06 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: CHENG Gao; +Cc: emacs-devel

In article <m21wb3vayb.fsf@news.cyberhut.org>, CHENG Gao <chenggao@gmail.com> writes:

> If Carbon port is treated as dead, and emacs-app (Cocoa port,
> http://emacs-app.sf.net) works well, is it possible that emacs-app be
> merged (as a branch in cvs or git repo) thus we MacOSX users can have an
> evolving Emacs?

To my understanding, Carbon port should be treated as dead,
and the merging of Cocoa port into the trunk (or to
emacs-unicode-2 branch) isn't that far.

"Adrian Robert" <adrian.b.robert@gmail.com> wrote:

> I updated Emacs.app (Mac Cocoa port) to run under the multi-tty
> changes as merged into the unicode-2 branch, however before releasing
> I need to solve one remaining problem: when run as -nw, the default
> face is set to green foreground, yellow background.  (If I go to
> customize-face it actually says "green" and "yellow".)  This occurs
> with emacs -Q -nw and is new -- unicode-2 CVS before the merge
> produces a black-on-white default face.

> Someone suggested something in my terminal settings caused the
> problem, though I don't have any customization (moved aside .cshrc).
> However the Apple terminal itself may be the cause?  If I run under an
> xterm the problem goes away, but I'm in black-and-white mode.  Setting
> the TERM variable under Apple terminal to various values likewise
> either gives green/yellow or full b-&-w mode.

> Anyway if anyone has any suggestions as to where to start hunting, I
> would be grateful.

> Another question -- is there any way to ask the new emacsclient to
> open a frame in the default windowing terminal?  There is the
> --display argument but that seems to force X.  What about adding
> --terminal=zz, with zz='default' meaning $DISPLAY env variable (X), or
> normal GUI display on Mac or Windows?  Or simply "-gui" as a synonym
> for --terminal=default?

> Finally, is basic use of multi-tty from inside emacs documented
> anywhere?  I read about some functions in the NEWS but could not find
> out how to get a list of the available terminal names to use for 'tty'
> arguments, or how to specify displays in non-X environments.  E.g.,
> I'd like to throw up a GUI window from inside a -nw session.

> thanks,
> Adrian

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:02 Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 12:14 ` CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 12:29 ` Kenichi Handa
@ 2007-11-06 12:34 ` Jason Rumney
  2007-11-06 13:58   ` CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 19:26   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07 18:30 ` CHENG Gao
  3 siblings, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2007-11-06 12:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: CHENG Gao; +Cc: emacs-devel

CHENG Gao wrote:
> Emacs running from terminal works ok. But Emacs.app (running from
> Finder) is not usable. For every keystroke (keyboard input or mouse
> click) I have to wait for several minutes. I think it's owing to my
> brutal revert of mac_set_unicode_keystrok_event which makes
> do_keystrokes dysfunction.
> Another possibility is workaround of "export LIBS=-lresolv". I have no
> idea. Or owing to merge of multi-tty code?
>   
Definitely the merge of multi-tty code, the same problem has been
reported in the trunk multiple times.
macterm.c is missing a call to add_keyboard_wait_descriptor (see xterm.c
and w32term.c), which was necessary to get input working at all on
Windows after the multi-tty merge. Despite this being pointed out
several times, noone who is using a Mac has tried adding this call and
reported back whether it solves the problem.

I think reverting the change is correct, as the old mule based utf
codings are no longer used internally, but it might be a good idea to
find what the change was in the trunk that caused this code to be
merged, as there may be something there that should be changed in the
unicode branch as well.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:29 ` Kenichi Handa
@ 2007-11-06 13:52   ` CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 19:28   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07 13:19   ` Carbon port vs. Emacs.app plus Emacs.app problem report w/test-case Mike Mattie
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: CHENG Gao @ 2007-11-06 13:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

*On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:29:56 +0900
* Also sprach Kenichi Handa <handa@ni.aist.go.jp>:

> To my understanding, Carbon port should be treated as dead, and the
> merging of Cocoa port into the trunk (or to emacs-unicode-2 branch)
> isn't that far.

I read the message you refered to, that's why I mentioned merge of Cocoa
port. Till now there is no OFFICIAL confirmation of the
said/hoped/dreamed merge.


-- 
Nosce te ipsum

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:34 ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Jason Rumney
@ 2007-11-06 13:58   ` CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 19:26   ` Ted Zlatanov
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: CHENG Gao @ 2007-11-06 13:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

*On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:34:54 +0000
* Also sprach Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org>:

> Definitely the merge of multi-tty code, the same problem has been
> reported in the trunk multiple times. macterm.c is missing a call to
> add_keyboard_wait_descriptor (see xterm.c and w32term.c), which was
> necessary to get input working at all on Windows after the multi-tty
> merge. Despite this being pointed out several times, noone who is using
> a Mac has tried adding this call and reported back whether it solves the
> problem.
>
> I think reverting the change is correct, as the old mule based utf
> codings are no longer used internally, but it might be a good idea to
> find what the change was in the trunk that caused this code to be
> merged, as there may be something there that should be changed in the
> unicode branch as well.

I read discussions about adding of this call into macterm.c
(mac_term_init). From the discussion I know Ted Zlatanov tried this and
it did not work. I tried this and built twice. It remains the
same. I must say I dont know where to add. I tried

,----
| add_keyboard_wait_descriptor(0)
`----

and 

,----
| add_keyboard_wait_descriptor(1)
`----

before

,----
| #if USE_CG_DRAWING
|   mac_init_fringe (terminal->rif);
| #endif
`----

(I imagined this position after reading w32term.c).

-- 
Totus mundus agit histrionem

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:34 ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Jason Rumney
  2007-11-06 13:58   ` CHENG Gao
@ 2007-11-06 19:26   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07  4:13     ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-07 14:15     ` Adrian Robert
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2007-11-06 19:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel; +Cc: adrian.robert

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:34:54 +0000 Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org> wrote: 

JR> CHENG Gao wrote:
>> Emacs running from terminal works ok. But Emacs.app (running from
>> Finder) is not usable. For every keystroke (keyboard input or mouse
>> click) I have to wait for several minutes. I think it's owing to my
>> brutal revert of mac_set_unicode_keystrok_event which makes
>> do_keystrokes dysfunction.
>> Another possibility is workaround of "export LIBS=-lresolv". I have no
>> idea. Or owing to merge of multi-tty code?
>> 
JR> Definitely the merge of multi-tty code, the same problem has been
JR> reported in the trunk multiple times.
JR> macterm.c is missing a call to add_keyboard_wait_descriptor (see xterm.c
JR> and w32term.c), which was necessary to get input working at all on
JR> Windows after the multi-tty merge. Despite this being pointed out
JR> several times, noone who is using a Mac has tried adding this call and
JR> reported back whether it solves the problem.

You must have missed my messages.  I did this several times and reported
that a simple call to add_keyboard_wait_descriptor was not the
solution.  I've tested on Mac OS 10.4 and 10.5.

JR> I think reverting the change is correct, as the old mule based utf
JR> codings are no longer used internally, but it might be a good idea to
JR> find what the change was in the trunk that caused this code to be
JR> merged, as there may be something there that should be changed in the
JR> unicode branch as well.

After trying the Cocoa port, it's actually much better than the Carbon
port, and Carbon is deprecated on MacOS according to Apple (10.5
compilations report deprecated symbols for many Carbon functions).  I
think merging the Cocoa port would be a good thing.  Unfortunately it
doesn't help those who want to track CVS with the Emacs build today, and
I don't know how hard it will be.  Adrian Robert, the maintainer of the
Cocoa port at http://emacs-app.sourceforge.net/, is CCed here in case he
wants to give his opinion.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:29 ` Kenichi Handa
  2007-11-06 13:52   ` CHENG Gao
@ 2007-11-06 19:28   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-06 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
  2007-11-07 13:19   ` Carbon port vs. Emacs.app plus Emacs.app problem report w/test-case Mike Mattie
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2007-11-06 19:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:29:56 +0900 Kenichi Handa <handa@ni.aist.go.jp> wrote: 

KH> In article <m21wb3vayb.fsf@news.cyberhut.org>, CHENG Gao <chenggao@gmail.com> writes:
>> If Carbon port is treated as dead, and emacs-app (Cocoa port,
>> http://emacs-app.sf.net) works well, is it possible that emacs-app be
>> merged (as a branch in cvs or git repo) thus we MacOSX users can have an
>> evolving Emacs?

KH> To my understanding, Carbon port should be treated as dead,
KH> and the merging of Cocoa port into the trunk (or to
KH> emacs-unicode-2 branch) isn't that far.

Unfortunately meanwhile the Emacs build on MacOS X (--with-carbon) will
keep generating bug reports about the input problems.  I've seen 8 since
August, and I'm sure many more users didn't bother filing a bug report.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 19:28   ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2007-11-06 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
  2007-11-07  4:59       ` Ted Zlatanov
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Glenn Morris @ 2007-11-06 23:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov wrote:

> Unfortunately meanwhile the Emacs build on MacOS X (--with-carbon) will
> keep generating bug reports about the input problems.  I've seen 8 since
> August, and I'm sure many more users didn't bother filing a bug report.

I'm going to change configure to warn that the CVS trunk Mac Carbon
port is unsupported.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 19:26   ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2007-11-07  4:13     ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-07  5:24       ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07 14:15     ` Adrian Robert
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu @ 2007-11-07  4:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: adrian.robert, emacs-devel

>>>>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:26:53 -0600, Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> said:

> After trying the Cocoa port, it's actually much better than the
> Carbon port,

Could you precisely describe in what aspects you think it's "much
better"?

> and Carbon is deprecated on MacOS according to Apple

If it were really deprecated, Apple wouldn't have added any new
frameworks to Carbon in Leopard.

> (10.5 compilations report deprecated symbols for many Carbon
> functions).

Did that cause any real problems?

I'm asking because they are related not only to the effectively
unmaintained Carbon port for Emacs 23 but also to the maintained one
for Emacs 22.

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
@ 2007-11-07  4:59       ` Ted Zlatanov
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2007-11-07  4:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:27:42 -0500 Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> wrote: 

GM> Ted Zlatanov wrote:
>> Unfortunately meanwhile the Emacs build on MacOS X (--with-carbon) will
>> keep generating bug reports about the input problems.  I've seen 8 since
>> August, and I'm sure many more users didn't bother filing a bug report.

GM> I'm going to change configure to warn that the CVS trunk Mac Carbon
GM> port is unsupported.

Thank you!!!

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07  4:13     ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
@ 2007-11-07  5:24       ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07  5:52         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2007-11-07  5:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 13:13:12 +0900 YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> wrote: 

>>>>>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:26:53 -0600, Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> said:
>> After trying the Cocoa port, it's actually much better than the
>> Carbon port,

YM> Could you precisely describe in what aspects you think it's "much
YM> better"?

Well, the short answer is that it actually takes input from the
keyboard.  I'd say that's a big improvement over today's Carbon port
builds.  That aside, it has better integration with the MacOS, a nice
Preferences dialog, better font rendering, and other improvements listed
in the ChangeLog.

>> and Carbon is deprecated on MacOS according to Apple

YM> If it were really deprecated, Apple wouldn't have added any new
YM> frameworks to Carbon in Leopard.

According to this article:

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/mac-os-x-10-5.ars/6

"Yep, it's (finally) the end of the line for Carbon GUI applications in
Mac OS X. Oh, sure, they'll be around for years and years to come, but
the lack of 64-bit support is a long-term death sentence.

The last vestiges of the original Macintosh API are finally being put to
rest. They've done their job and are being given a decent burial, I
think. A slow, almost natural transition. Bugs will be fixed in the
32-bit Carbon APIs, of course, but no new features will be added. All
new GUI APIs in Leopard and future Mac OS X releases will be added as
Cocoa-only APIs."

This is based on Apple's official announcements, not the author's
opinion.

>> (10.5 compilations report deprecated symbols for many Carbon
>> functions).

YM> Did that cause any real problems?

YM> I'm asking because they are related not only to the effectively
YM> unmaintained Carbon port for Emacs 23 but also to the maintained one
YM> for Emacs 22.

No, deprecation warnings are not a problem in themselves, they indicate
the API will go away.  That's their purpose, generally.

I assumed that the deprecation warnings I saw while compiling the Carbon
port were Apple's way of telling developers the Carbon APIs are
deprecated.  Am I wrong?

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07  5:24       ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2007-11-07  5:52         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-07  6:03           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
                             ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu @ 2007-11-07  5:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: emacs-devel

>>>>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:24:22 -0600, Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> said:

YM> Could you precisely describe in what aspects you think it's "much
YM> better"?

> Well, the short answer is that it actually takes input from the
> keyboard.  I'd say that's a big improvement over today's Carbon port
> builds.

OK, I'm not interested in the comparison between a working one and a
not working one.

> That aside, it has better integration with the MacOS, a nice
> Preferences dialog, better font rendering, and other improvements
> listed in the ChangeLog.

What is "better integration with the MacOS", concretely?  In what
sense the font rendering in the Carbon port is worse?

And I don't think the Preference dialog that can't be controlled from
Emacs Lisp is suitable for Emacs.

YM> If it were really deprecated, Apple wouldn't have added any new
YM> frameworks to Carbon in Leopard.

> According to this article:

> http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/mac-os-x-10-5.ars/6

> "Yep, it's (finally) the end of the line for Carbon GUI applications
> in Mac OS X. Oh, sure, they'll be around for years and years to
> come, but the lack of 64-bit support is a long-term death sentence.

> The last vestiges of the original Macintosh API are finally being
> put to rest. They've done their job and are being given a decent
> burial, I think. A slow, almost natural transition. Bugs will be
> fixed in the 32-bit Carbon APIs, of course, but no new features will
> be added. All new GUI APIs in Leopard and future Mac OS X releases
> will be added as Cocoa-only APIs."

> This is based on Apple's official announcements, not the author's
> opinion.

It says about the *GUI* APIs in Carbon, not the whole Carbon APIs.
That's why I'm making the Carbon+AppKit port (for Emacs 22) mentioned
elsewhere:

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg00395.html

YM> Did that cause any real problems?

YM> I'm asking because they are related not only to the effectively
YM> unmaintained Carbon port for Emacs 23 but also to the maintained
YM> one for Emacs 22.

> No, deprecation warnings are not a problem in themselves, they
> indicate the API will go away.  That's their purpose, generally.

> I assumed that the deprecation warnings I saw while compiling the
> Carbon port were Apple's way of telling developers the Carbon APIs
> are deprecated.  Am I wrong?

It wouldn't go away soon for the binary compatibility for existing
Carbon applications.  And the warnings are not about the whole Carbon,
again.  Actually, as for the Carbon+AppKit port in 64-bit environment,
it compiles without any `deprecated' warnings and runs, though there
still remain a few major problems such as suspected ATSUI bug, which
I've already reported to Apple, and some unexec problem.

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07  5:52         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
@ 2007-11-07  6:03           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-07 14:19           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-24  9:18           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu @ 2007-11-07  6:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: emacs-devel

>>>>> On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:52:23 +0900, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> said:

> Actually, as for the Carbon+AppKit port in 64-bit environment, it
> compiles without any `deprecated' warnings and runs, though there
> still remain a few major problems such as suspected ATSUI bug, which
> I've already reported to Apple, and some unexec problem.

To be precise, these major problems are only on the 64-bit version.
The 32-bit version of the Carbon+AppKit port is working without these
problems.

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Carbon port vs. Emacs.app plus Emacs.app problem report w/test-case
  2007-11-06 12:29 ` Kenichi Handa
  2007-11-06 13:52   ` CHENG Gao
  2007-11-06 19:28   ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2007-11-07 13:19   ` Mike Mattie
  2007-11-07 13:54     ` Ted Zlatanov
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Mike Mattie @ 2007-11-07 13:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel


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On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:29:56 +0900
Kenichi Handa <handa@ni.aist.go.jp> wrote:

> In article <m21wb3vayb.fsf@news.cyberhut.org>, CHENG Gao
> <chenggao@gmail.com> writes:
> 
> > If Carbon port is treated as dead, and emacs-app (Cocoa port,
> > http://emacs-app.sf.net) works well, is it possible that emacs-app
> > be merged (as a branch in cvs or git repo) thus we MacOSX users can
> > have an evolving Emacs?
> 
> To my understanding, Carbon port should be treated as dead,
> and the merging of Cocoa port into the trunk (or to
> emacs-unicode-2 branch) isn't that far.

I surely hope that the Carbon port isn't dead. 
I use 22.1.1 2007-06-16 on powerpc-apple-darwin8.9.0
as the only emacs that works on my laptop.

It is not a subjective sort of "doesn't work", I tried
emacs.app (can't remember version will add more) and it blew up on my .emacs
with these lines:

(cond
  ((string-equal "gnu/linux" system-type) (load-file "/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/site-gentoo.el"))
  ((string-equal "darwin" system-type) (load-file (concat (getenv "HOME") "/system/emacs/darwin.el")))
  )

For a test case you can drop the (load-file "file") part. I found that a single string-equal call
on the system-type symbol worked. However two subsequent uses of the system-type symbol as above
caused the elisp debugger to be entered.

I removed the line and it (Emacs.app) continued to exhibit terrible behavior. Crashed during syntax highlighting,
received numerous "max binding depth reached" like errors doing innocuous things like C-hf. I have also noticed
that problem on Linux-x86 with emacs 23.0.0.3, but it's alot harder to trigger there.

I was waiting for the time to construct a more useful problem report, but this has at least a test-case.

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_______________________________________________
Emacs-devel mailing list
Emacs-devel@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port vs. Emacs.app plus Emacs.app problem report w/test-case
  2007-11-07 13:19   ` Carbon port vs. Emacs.app plus Emacs.app problem report w/test-case Mike Mattie
@ 2007-11-07 13:54     ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07 15:45       ` Mike Mattie
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2007-11-07 13:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 05:19:50 -0800 Mike Mattie <codermattie@gmail.com> wrote: 

MM> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:29:56 +0900
MM> Kenichi Handa <handa@ni.aist.go.jp> wrote:

>> In article <m21wb3vayb.fsf@news.cyberhut.org>, CHENG Gao
>> <chenggao@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>> > If Carbon port is treated as dead, and emacs-app (Cocoa port,
>> > http://emacs-app.sf.net) works well, is it possible that emacs-app
>> > be merged (as a branch in cvs or git repo) thus we MacOSX users can
>> > have an evolving Emacs?
>> 
>> To my understanding, Carbon port should be treated as dead,
>> and the merging of Cocoa port into the trunk (or to
>> emacs-unicode-2 branch) isn't that far.

MM> I surely hope that the Carbon port isn't dead. 
MM> I use 22.1.1 2007-06-16 on powerpc-apple-darwin8.9.0
MM> as the only emacs that works on my laptop.

MM> It is not a subjective sort of "doesn't work", I tried emacs.app
MM> (can't remember version will add more) and it blew up on my .emacs
MM> with these lines:

...

MM> I was waiting for the time to construct a more useful problem
MM> report, but this has at least a test-case.

I think you should submit this to the Emacs.app mailing list,
emacs-devel is unlikely to help you.  The home page has the pointers.

http://emacs-app.sourceforge.net/

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 19:26   ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07  4:13     ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
@ 2007-11-07 14:15     ` Adrian Robert
  2007-11-07 15:05       ` Jason Rumney
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Robert @ 2007-11-07 14:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov <tzz <at> lifelogs.com> writes:

> I think merging the Cocoa port would be a good thing.  Unfortunately it
> doesn't help those who want to track CVS with the Emacs build today, and
> I don't know how hard it will be.

I was planning to ask about inclusion after finishing up the multi-tty
integration.  But anyway since the issue has been raised, is autumn 2007 a good
time to consider merging the Cocoa/GNUstep port into the unicode-2 branch, or
would people prefer to wait until after unicode-2 -> trunk?  Based on my
experiences, the latter approach would be much less headache, but don't know how
far off the unicode merge is at the moment.

A brief comment on the Preferences dialog, this is tied to "defaults" under
GNUstep/OS X systems, which are more or less equivalent to X resources.  All of
these variables can also be read/set through lisp.  They are not exposed through
defcustom at the moment, but the intent is to provide an optional convenience,
not to replace standard emacs customization mechanisms.


Adrian

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07  5:52         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-07  6:03           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
@ 2007-11-07 14:19           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07 14:34             ` Jason Rumney
  2007-11-08  1:27             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-24  9:18           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2 siblings, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2007-11-07 14:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:52:23 +0900 YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> wrote: 

>>>>>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:24:22 -0600, Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> said:

>> That aside, it has better integration with the MacOS, a nice
>> Preferences dialog, better font rendering, and other improvements
>> listed in the ChangeLog.

YM> What is "better integration with the MacOS", concretely?  

You and I could look through the ChangeLog and see all the differences.
As an example, the MacOS font and color pickers are available.  I think
those are much better than the default cross-platform font/color
pickers.

YM> In what sense the font rendering in the Carbon port is worse?

According to the ChangeLog they have improved several aspects of the
font rendering; to me it looks better.  I could be wrong.

YM> And I don't think the Preference dialog that can't be controlled from
YM> Emacs Lisp is suitable for Emacs.

I don't know about this.  I think this is a good thing because it works
better for new users, and the regular Customize interface is still
available under Options->Customize Emacs.  On the other hand, it's
inconsistent with other platforms to have a special preferences dialog.

YM> It says about the *GUI* APIs in Carbon, not the whole Carbon APIs.
YM> That's why I'm making the Carbon+AppKit port (for Emacs 22) mentioned
YM> elsewhere:

YM>   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg00395.html

Note the Cocoa port offers GNUstep compatibility, which Richard has
mentioned is important.  This may be important to the Emacs project; I
don't have an opinion.

I can look at your port too.  But I can't find it online.  Is it
available?  I'll gladly test it, offer suggestions, etc. if you need
that assistance.  It's hard to say more about your work or compare it
with the Cocoa port otherwise.

>> I assumed that the deprecation warnings I saw while compiling the
>> Carbon port were Apple's way of telling developers the Carbon APIs
>> are deprecated.  Am I wrong?

YM> It wouldn't go away soon for the binary compatibility for existing
YM> Carbon applications.  And the warnings are not about the whole Carbon,
YM> again.  Actually, as for the Carbon+AppKit port in 64-bit environment,
YM> it compiles without any `deprecated' warnings and runs, though there
YM> still remain a few major problems such as suspected ATSUI bug, which
YM> I've already reported to Apple, and some unexec problem.

Thank you for the information.  Sounds like Carbon is only deprecated
selectively (the GUI portions as you mentioned) so it's not as dead as I
thought.

Ted

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 14:19           ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2007-11-07 14:34             ` Jason Rumney
       [not found]               ` <m2abpqt5mm.fsf@lifelogs.com>
  2007-11-08  4:42               ` Richard Stallman
  2007-11-08  1:27             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2007-11-07 14:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Ted Zlatanov; +Cc: emacs-devel

Ted Zlatanov wrote:
> YM> And I don't think the Preference dialog that can't be controlled from
> YM> Emacs Lisp is suitable for Emacs.
>
> I don't know about this.  I think this is a good thing because it works
> better for new users, and the regular Customize interface is still
> available under Options->Customize Emacs.  On the other hand, it's
> inconsistent with other platforms to have a special preferences dialog.
>   

Before the Cocoa port is merged, it would be good if the developers
could list all such new features here, so we could decide:

1. The feature is a good feature, and we should implement it on other
platforms too.
2. The feature really is Mac specific, and is good to have on that
platform, but doesn't fit in other platforms.
3. The feature is not something we want in Emacs right now.

If any features fall into the third category, then Emacs.app will no
doubt continue to exist as a separate project, but hopefully the
developers will still go ahead and merge the rest.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 14:15     ` Adrian Robert
@ 2007-11-07 15:05       ` Jason Rumney
  2007-11-07 16:09         ` Stefan Monnier
                           ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Jason Rumney @ 2007-11-07 15:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Adrian Robert; +Cc: emacs-devel

Adrian Robert wrote:
> I was planning to ask about inclusion after finishing up the multi-tty
> integration.  But anyway since the issue has been raised, is autumn 2007 a good
> time to consider merging the Cocoa/GNUstep port into the unicode-2 branch, or
> would people prefer to wait until after unicode-2 -> trunk?  Based on my
> experiences, the latter approach would be much less headache, but don't know how
> far off the unicode merge is at the moment.
>   


I'd suggest the following timetable.

1. Start the 22.2 pretest (hopefully a short pretest cycle).
2. Release 22.2 without getting distracted by more merges.
3. Merge unicode-2 to the trunk (I think it is ready now, so immediately
after 22.2 release would be good).
4. Merge Cocoa port (if 22.2 pretest starts taking a long time though,
it might be better to merge to unicode-2 earlier).
5. Enable new font-backend by default.
6. Remove the old font code (which unless someone implements a backend
for Carbon, implies the end of the Carbon port)

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port vs. Emacs.app plus Emacs.app problem report w/test-case
  2007-11-07 13:54     ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2007-11-07 15:45       ` Mike Mattie
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Mike Mattie @ 2007-11-07 15:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel


[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1232 bytes --]

On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 07:54:47 -0600
Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 05:19:50 -0800 Mike Mattie <codermattie@gmail.com>
> wrote: 
> 
> MM> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:29:56 +0900
> MM> Kenichi Handa <handa@ni.aist.go.jp> wrote:
> 
> >> In article <m21wb3vayb.fsf@news.cyberhut.org>, CHENG Gao
> >> <chenggao@gmail.com> writes:
> >> 
>

[snip]

> 
> I think you should submit this to the Emacs.app mailing list,
> emacs-devel is unlikely to help you.  The home page has the pointers.
> 
> http://emacs-app.sourceforge.net/
> 
> Ted


Thanks for the reply. I must admit that from the user's standpoint
the situation is incredibly confusing. There are multiple forks/ports
to OS X on sourceforge alone. Trying to figure out which one
will be GNU Emacs on OS X, and worth investing maintenance, learning,
customization, and debugging time into is difficult. They are all
significantly different.

At least from my perspective picking one would be fantastic, even if
buggy, as I would not be juggling a bunch of dead forks. Debugging
problems and submitting reports to a future-less project is a waste
of life.

just my 2 cents from the peanut gallery.

Cheers,
Mike Mattie

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_______________________________________________
Emacs-devel mailing list
Emacs-devel@gnu.org
http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 15:05       ` Jason Rumney
@ 2007-11-07 16:09         ` Stefan Monnier
  2007-11-08  4:42           ` Richard Stallman
  2007-11-07 16:14         ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Dan Nicolaescu
  2007-11-08  4:42         ` Richard Stallman
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2007-11-07 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: Adrian Robert, emacs-devel

> 3. Merge unicode-2 to the trunk (I think it is ready now, so immediately
> after 22.2 release would be good).

AFAIK the "merge" can be done right now: it's just a matter fo changing
which branch is condiered "the trunk".  The only thing missing is some
agreement as to *how* to do it, the main issue being the what to put
into the ChangeLog.  Richard wants the ChangeLog to be massaged in a way
similar to what was done for multi-tty, and when this came up, everybody
ran away screeming (there's about 280KB of ChangeLog entries on the
unicode branch).


        Stefan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 15:05       ` Jason Rumney
  2007-11-07 16:09         ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2007-11-07 16:14         ` Dan Nicolaescu
  2007-11-08  4:42         ` Richard Stallman
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Dan Nicolaescu @ 2007-11-07 16:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: Adrian Robert, emacs-devel

Jason Rumney <jasonr@gnu.org> writes:

  > Adrian Robert wrote:
  > > I was planning to ask about inclusion after finishing up the multi-tty
  > > integration.  But anyway since the issue has been raised, is autumn 2007 a good
  > > time to consider merging the Cocoa/GNUstep port into the unicode-2 branch, or
  > > would people prefer to wait until after unicode-2 -> trunk?  Based on my
  > > experiences, the latter approach would be much less headache, but don't know how
  > > far off the unicode merge is at the moment.
  > >   
  > 
  > 
  > I'd suggest the following timetable.
  > 
  > 1. Start the 22.2 pretest (hopefully a short pretest cycle).
  > 2. Release 22.2 without getting distracted by more merges.
  > 3. Merge unicode-2 to the trunk (I think it is ready now, so immediately
  > after 22.2 release would be good).
  > 4. Merge Cocoa port (if 22.2 pretest starts taking a long time though,
  > it might be better to merge to unicode-2 earlier).
  > 5. Enable new font-backend by default.
  > 6. Remove the old font code (which unless someone implements a backend
  > for Carbon, implies the end of the Carbon port)

This looks good, I would also like to add a step that can be done in
parallel: 

- Have the Cocoa port reviewed so that there are less questions about
  what it does and how it does stuff when it is included. Probably the
  changes to the common code are the most important.

Is the Cocoa port a complete replacement for the Carbon port from the
_user_ point of view? Does it support the same machines equally well?
If yes, then there seems to be little point in having both in the
tree, it might be better to remove the (already non-functional) Carbon
port as early as possible (now?).

Besides reducing complexity, it seems that there are not that many
people willing to work on the Mac platform, so having to deal with
less code might be a good idea.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
       [not found]               ` <m2abpqt5mm.fsf@lifelogs.com>
@ 2007-11-07 16:40                 ` Adrian Robert
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Adrian Robert @ 2007-11-07 16:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

> JR> Before the Cocoa port is merged, it would be good if the developers
> JR> could list all such new features here, so we could decide:
>
> JR> 1. The feature is a good feature, and we should implement it on other
> JR> platforms too.
> JR> 2. The feature really is Mac specific, and is good to have on that
> JR> platform, but doesn't fit in other platforms.
> JR> 3. The feature is not something we want in Emacs right now.

> Adrian, I copy you on this, in case you don't follow emacs-devel
> directly.  There's also a discussion with YAMAMOTO Mituharu about the
> Cocoa port vs. his Carbon+AppKit port.

Thanks, I read emacs-devel thru gmane, so cc'ing is faster.

I'll try to write up a list of the features and post it with some commentary.

Regarding the Carbon-AppKit port and its predecessor the Carbon port,
it and the Cocoa port have become more similar from a user perspective
over time, as each derived inspiration from the other and feedback
from a shared user community.  There is some greater difference under
the hood, since one developed to the object-oriented framework from
the start, but I think that is becoming somewhat less now with
Carbon-AppKit (I've not seen all the code there), and my own efforts
to make things more uniform with other ports.

The Cocoa port supports a superset of the platforms (due to GNUstep
support), but the Carbon port, despite being younger, is more mature
and robust, so as long as people are working on it (now on
Carbon-AppKit), that's another good reason to keep it.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-06 12:02 Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX CHENG Gao
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2007-11-06 12:34 ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Jason Rumney
@ 2007-11-07 18:30 ` CHENG Gao
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: CHENG Gao @ 2007-11-07 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel


> I reported twice before about failing owing to undefined symbols in
> macterm.c. The problem is from new mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event
> introduced by June 7 checkin (revision 1.47.2.56, Wed Jun 7 18:04:51
> 2006 UTC).
>
> The code: ,----
> | static void mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event (code, buf) UniChar code;
> | struct input_event *buf; { int charset_id, c1, c2;
> | 	 	 
> | 	 	   if (code < 0x80) {
> | 	 	       buf->kind = ASCII_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
> | 	 	       buf->code = code;
> | 	 	     }
> | 	 	   else if (code < 0x100) { if (code < 0xA0) charset_id =
> | CHARSET_8_BIT_CONTROL; else charset_id = charset_latin_iso8859_1;
> | 	 	       buf->kind = MULTIBYTE_CHAR_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
> | 	 	       buf->code = MAKE_CHAR (charset_id, code, 0);
> | 	 	     }
> | 	 	   else { if (code < 0x2500) charset_id =
> | charset_mule_unicode_0100_24ff, code -= 0x100; else if (code < 0x33FF)
> | charset_id = charset_mule_unicode_2500_33ff, code -= 0x2500; else if
> | (code >= 0xE000) charset_id = charset_mule_unicode_e000_ffff, code -=
> | 0xE000; c1 = (code / 96) + 32, c2 = (code % 96) + 32;
> | 	 	       buf->kind = MULTIBYTE_CHAR_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
> | 	 	       buf->code = MAKE_CHAR (charset_id, c1, c2);
> | 	 	     }
> | 	 	 }
> `----
>
> CHARSET_8_BIT_CONTROL, charset_mule_unicode_0100_24ff,
> charset_mule_2500_33ff, charset_mule_unicode_e000_ffff used here are
> defined in any place.
>
> I reverted this funciton to previous as: ,----
> | static void mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event (code, buf) UniChar code;
> | struct input_event *buf; { int charset_id, c1, c2;
> | 
> |   if (code < 0x80)
> |     buf->kind = ASCII_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
> |   else
> |     buf->kind = MULTIBYTE_CHAR_KEYSTROKE_EVENT;
> |   buf->code = code; }
> `----

I did another test. I checked out Aug. 8 source (right before multi-tty
merge), and reverted mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event as described above.
It builds and works well.
So:
1. The culprit is multi-tty merge
It's reconfirmation to confirmed suspicion.

2. Function mac_set_unicode_keystroke_event should be reverted.

3. I am glad I upgraded my emacs-unicode-2 Carbon port from June 6
source to Aug. 28. 83 days after D-day brought me more peace.

-- 
Volo, non valeo

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 14:19           ` Ted Zlatanov
  2007-11-07 14:34             ` Jason Rumney
@ 2007-11-08  1:27             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-08  2:31               ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu @ 2007-11-08  1:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

>>>>> On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:07 -0600, Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> said:

YM> What is "better integration with the MacOS", concretely?

> You and I could look through the ChangeLog and see all the
> differences.  As an example, the MacOS font and color pickers are
> available.  I think those are much better than the default
> cross-platform font/color pickers.

The Font Panel also is accessible from the Carbon port, via M-x
mac-font-panel-mode RET or Options -> Show/Hide -> Font Panel.  I
think making it global minor mode is a cleaner integration to Emacs
because it behaves as a non-modal floating panel just like the
Speedbar.

Though I have an implementation of the Color Picker from the Font
Panel, I didn't checked it in because I didn't think it much useful,
no counterparts found in other platforms, and there was a nasty bug in
the Carbon Color Picker that its window doesn't disappear in some
situation.

YM> In what sense the font rendering in the Carbon port is worse?

> According to the ChangeLog they have improved several aspects of the
> font rendering; to me it looks better.  I could be wrong.

I'm asking the bases of your words, "after trying the Cocoa port, it's
actually much better than the Carbon port".  Without the concrete and
specific bases, you shouldn't have said so.

YM> And I don't think the Preference dialog that can't be controlled
YM> from Emacs Lisp is suitable for Emacs.

> I don't know about this.  I think this is a good thing because it
> works better for new users, and the regular Customize interface is
> still available under Options->Customize Emacs.  On the other hand,
> it's inconsistent with other platforms to have a special preferences
> dialog.

That might be good for a particular "distribution", but we are talking
about merging into Emacs core.  I would not add such a feature that
there are no counterparts in other platforms, unless it is too
Mac-specific.

Also, I'd give priority to implement fundamental features such as C-g
handling rather than fancy but superficial ones.  If you have been
watching the Carbon port in CVS, you'll notice that the proxy icons
and the font panels are added much later.  I don't know the current
status of the Cocoa port, but as of the last release, it still doesn't
handle C-g properly.

YM> It says about the *GUI* APIs in Carbon, not the whole Carbon APIs.
YM> That's why I'm making the Carbon+AppKit port (for Emacs 22) mentioned
YM> elsewhere:

YM>   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg00395.html

> Note the Cocoa port offers GNUstep compatibility, which Richard has
> mentioned is important.  This may be important to the Emacs project;
> I don't have an opinion.

The importance of the GNUstep port doesn't affect the inclusion of the
Carbon+AppKit port to the later versions of *Emacs 22*.  Also, I've
been rather encouraging the merge of the Cocoa port to Emacs 23
(otherwise, I would still be working on the Carbon port for Emacs 23).

> I can look at your port too.  But I can't find it online.  Is it
> available?  I'll gladly test it, offer suggestions, etc. if you need
> that assistance.  It's hard to say more about your work or compare
> it with the Cocoa port otherwise.

It'll be available after the Emacs 22.2 release, if its inclusion is
allowed.  If you want to see how it behaves, just test the Carbon
port.  They are pretty much the same except `deprecated' warnings :-p

> Thank you for the information.  Sounds like Carbon is only
> deprecated selectively (the GUI portions as you mentioned) so it's
> not as dead as I thought.

And even with GUI, two major Apple apps, Finder and iTunes, are also
implemented as Carbon apps.

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-08  1:27             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
@ 2007-11-08  2:31               ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu @ 2007-11-08  2:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

>>>>> On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 10:27:45 +0900, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> said:

>> I can look at your port too.  But I can't find it online.  Is it
>> available?  I'll gladly test it, offer suggestions, etc. if you
>> need that assistance.  It's hard to say more about your work or
>> compare it with the Cocoa port otherwise.

> It'll be available after the Emacs 22.2 release, if its inclusion is
> allowed.  If you want to see how it behaves, just test the Carbon
> port.  They are pretty much the same except `deprecated' warnings
> :-p

As the Carbon+AppKit port uses NSToolbar by default instead of the
native Emacs tool bar, it's much like the Carbon port as of the
`before-merge-multi-tty-to-trunk' tag, which uses HIToolbar and works.

And another fact about the `deprecated' warnings: there are some
functions that Apple marked `deprecated' in Tiger, but those marks are
withdrawn in Leopard.  You should not be worry about those warnings
too sensitively.

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 14:34             ` Jason Rumney
       [not found]               ` <m2abpqt5mm.fsf@lifelogs.com>
@ 2007-11-08  4:42               ` Richard Stallman
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-11-08  4:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: tzz, emacs-devel

    Before the Cocoa port is merged, it would be good if the developers
    could list all such new features here, so we could decide:

    1. The feature is a good feature, and we should implement it on other
    platforms too.

In that case, I'd like people to make it work on GNU/Linux before we
install it.  Otherwise we would be going on a limb, adding a Mac-only
feature and hoping that someone will make it work on GNU/Linux.

    2. The feature really is Mac specific, and is good to have on that
    platform, but doesn't fit in other platforms.

This is possible, but only when the feature really makes no other
sense.

    3. The feature is not something we want in Emacs right now.

That sometimes happens.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 15:05       ` Jason Rumney
  2007-11-07 16:09         ` Stefan Monnier
  2007-11-07 16:14         ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Dan Nicolaescu
@ 2007-11-08  4:42         ` Richard Stallman
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-11-08  4:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jason Rumney; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, emacs-devel

    I'd suggest the following timetable.

    1. Start the 22.2 pretest (hopefully a short pretest cycle).
    2. Release 22.2 without getting distracted by more merges.
    3. Merge unicode-2 to the trunk (I think it is ready now, so immediately
    after 22.2 release would be good).
    4. Merge Cocoa port (if 22.2 pretest starts taking a long time though,
    it might be better to merge to unicode-2 earlier).
    5. Enable new font-backend by default.
    6. Remove the old font code (which unless someone implements a backend
    for Carbon, implies the end of the Carbon port)

It's not a timetable, but I don't think we need a timetable,
just a plan.

It's a good plan.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07 16:09         ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2007-11-08  4:42           ` Richard Stallman
  2007-11-08 15:56             ` Dan Nicolaescu
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-11-08  4:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, emacs-devel, jasonr

      Richard wants the ChangeLog to be massaged in a way
    similar to what was done for multi-tty, and when this came up, everybody
    ran away screeming (there's about 280KB of ChangeLog entries on the
    unicode branch).

It is important to have these change log entries in clean form.

The most important part of the massaging is to get rid of duplicate
entries.  For instance suppose a function named foo is added and then
changed 10 times.  There will be 11 change log entries for it, but we
we only need to keep one: "New function".

Even when a function is not new, sometimes you can simplify its change
log data a lot by combining entries.

I don't insist on combining entries when it isn't a simplification.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-08  4:42           ` Richard Stallman
@ 2007-11-08 15:56             ` Dan Nicolaescu
  2007-11-09  4:12               ` Richard Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Dan Nicolaescu @ 2007-11-08 15:56 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: rms; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, jasonr, Stefan Monnier, emacs-devel

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

  >       Richard wants the ChangeLog to be massaged in a way
  >     similar to what was done for multi-tty, and when this came up, everybody
  >     ran away screeming (there's about 280KB of ChangeLog entries on the
  >     unicode branch).
  > 
  > It is important to have these change log entries in clean form.
  > 
  > The most important part of the massaging is to get rid of duplicate
  > entries.  For instance suppose a function named foo is added and then
  > changed 10 times.  There will be 11 change log entries for it, but we
  > we only need to keep one: "New function".
  > 
  > Even when a function is not new, sometimes you can simplify its change
  > log data a lot by combining entries.
  > 
  > I don't insist on combining entries when it isn't a simplification.

I have done the majority similar work when the multi-tty branch was
merged.  I was a _HUGE_ _HUGE_ effort. The unicode-2 merge is a few
times (at least 3-4) bigger than that.
On top of that, it is error prone, especially for things that have
changed a lot. And those are the ones that need the most accurate
change descriptions.

Doing this is a very slow process, it needs a lot of editing and very
careful thinking, it cannot be done automatically or with your brain
in autopilot mode.

With that experience in mind, the utility of such editing of the
ChangeLogs seems questionable, it is a lot of up front investment that
is of very limited use (almost none). 

If one needs to look at the history of some change, it can be found in
the log and it is not hard to work your way backwards through the log,
the log entries are currently correct and well written.

With all this in mind, please reconsider the request to have the log
entries edited for the merge. 

Thanks

        --dan

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-08 15:56             ` Dan Nicolaescu
@ 2007-11-09  4:12               ` Richard Stallman
  2007-11-09  7:47                 ` Dan Nicolaescu
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-11-09  4:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Nicolaescu; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, jasonr, monnier, emacs-devel

    If one needs to look at the history of some change, it can be found in
    the log and it is not hard to work your way backwards through the log,
    the log entries are currently correct and well written.

This is a lot more work, over time than simplifying the change log in
the first place.  I don't think we should do a sloppy job.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-09  4:12               ` Richard Stallman
@ 2007-11-09  7:47                 ` Dan Nicolaescu
  2007-11-09 10:34                   ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Dan Nicolaescu @ 2007-11-09  7:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: rms; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, jasonr, monnier, emacs-devel

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

  >     If one needs to look at the history of some change, it can be found in
  >     the log and it is not hard to work your way backwards through the log,
  >     the log entries are currently correct and well written.
  > 
  > This is a lot more work, over time than simplifying the change log in
  > the first place.  

I respectfully disagree with that statement. I think you might
underestimate the effort that would take to do rewrite the logs. Based
on my experience with doing this for the multi-tty branch I don't
think this is the case. I would estimate at least a day of work do get
that done (might take a lot more than that though).

C-s can find anything in a matter of fractions of a second. 
It is extremely hard to believe that all the searches done afterwards
will add up to that much time.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-09  7:47                 ` Dan Nicolaescu
@ 2007-11-09 10:34                   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2007-11-09 15:09                     ` Dan Nicolaescu
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2007-11-09 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Nicolaescu; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, emacs-devel

> From: Dan Nicolaescu <dann@ics.uci.edu>
> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 23:47:50 -0800
> Cc: Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com, jasonr@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
> 	emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> I respectfully disagree with that statement. I think you might
> underestimate the effort that would take to do rewrite the logs. Based
> on my experience with doing this for the multi-tty branch I don't
> think this is the case. I would estimate at least a day of work do get
> that done (might take a lot more than that though).

Could you please describe the kinds of changes you needed to perform,
apart of replacing multiple entries for new functions/variables with a
single entry like "(foo): New function."?

I don't question your experience, I just cannot imagine too many other
changes that need to be done.  (Richard already said that
non-simplifying editing is not needed.)  Maybe I'm missing something,
or perhaps you took the editing job too seriously and did a much more
perfect job than was minimally needed.

If you explanations are convincing, perhaps I'll even volunteer to do
the job ;-)

TIA

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-09 10:34                   ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2007-11-09 15:09                     ` Dan Nicolaescu
  2007-11-10 17:54                       ` Richard Stallman
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Dan Nicolaescu @ 2007-11-09 15:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, emacs-devel

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

  > > From: Dan Nicolaescu <dann@ics.uci.edu>
  > > Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 23:47:50 -0800
  > > Cc: Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com, jasonr@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
  > > 	emacs-devel@gnu.org
  > > 
  > > I respectfully disagree with that statement. I think you might
  > > underestimate the effort that would take to do rewrite the logs. Based
  > > on my experience with doing this for the multi-tty branch I don't
  > > think this is the case. I would estimate at least a day of work do get
  > > that done (might take a lot more than that though).
  > 
  > Could you please describe the kinds of changes you needed to perform,
  > apart of replacing multiple entries for new functions/variables with a
  > single entry like "(foo): New function."?

When the functions/variables are new is the easiest case.  RMS also
asked for all log entries for the same function/variable to be
compacted into one. If the item in question has been modified 10
times, it makes for a lot of editing. On top of that, for multi-tty
some things have been renamed 2-3 times...

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-09 15:09                     ` Dan Nicolaescu
@ 2007-11-10 17:54                       ` Richard Stallman
  2007-11-12  5:17                         ` How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging Kenichi Handa
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-11-10 17:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Nicolaescu; +Cc: eliz, Adrian.B.Robert, emacs-devel

    When the functions/variables are new is the easiest case.  RMS also
    asked for all log entries for the same function/variable to be
    compacted into one.

I recently said I don't insist on doing that, not in general.

    On top of that, for multi-tty
    some things have been renamed 2-3 times...

When something has been renamed, that makes it particularly important
to combine and simplify the change log entries, because it is
particularly inconvenient to find them all otherwise.

I hope, and trust, that the number of things renamed is not
so large that this will amount to more than an hour of work.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging
  2007-11-10 17:54                       ` Richard Stallman
@ 2007-11-12  5:17                         ` Kenichi Handa
  2007-11-12 20:22                           ` Eli Zaretskii
                                             ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Kenichi Handa @ 2007-11-12  5:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: rms; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, eliz, dann, emacs-devel

I have a few questions about how to re-orgranize
ChangeLog.unicode for merging.

(1) As emacs-unicode-2 branch has very long history, the
changes have been made not only by me.  If the same function
has been modified by multiple persons, should we sumup
changes for each person?  If so, the result will be
confusing because we loose the time-line of changes.

DATE1 CHANGE1 by A
DATE2 CHANGE2 by B
DATE3 CHANGE3 by A
DATE4 CHANGE4 by B

will result in:

by A
  CHANGE1
  CHANGE3
by B
  CHANGE2
  CHANGE4

But, usually, it's important to know that CHANGE4 is done
after CHANGE3.

(2) The log files contain this kind of information.

2007-02-15  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>

	These changes are to compile a regexp into a pattern that can be
	used both for multibyte and unibyte targets.

	* Makefile.in (search.o): Depend on charset.h.
	...
[...]
2006-06-06  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>

	These changes are for the new font handling codes.

	* character.c (multibyte_char_to_unibyte_safe): New function.
	...

How to keep this kind of summary information when we sum up
changes.

(3) RMS wrote:

  > The most important part of the massaging is to get rid of duplicate
  > entries.  For instance suppose a function named foo is added and then
  > changed 10 times.  There will be 11 change log entries for it, but we
  > we only need to keep one: "New function".

Even for a new funciton, I want to know why some piece of
code is in the current shape.  I many times encountered such
a case that I don't remember why I wrote some code as the
current way.  In such a case, I read changelogs and get a
hint.  So, I don't want to loose the current information.
If you don't insist on having just one entry for changes of
a non-new function, please apply that also to a new
function.  For instance, I want to keep all of these
information.

	(insert_from_gap): Adjust intervals correctly.
	(insert_from_gap): Fix argument to offset_intervals.
	(insert_from_gap): Make it work even if PT != GTP.
	(insert_from_gap): Call record_insert.
	(insert_from_gap): New function.

Then, for instance, I can know (or recall) that the function
is intentionally coded to work in the PT != GTP case.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa@ni.aist.go.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging
  2007-11-12  5:17                         ` How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging Kenichi Handa
@ 2007-11-12 20:22                           ` Eli Zaretskii
  2007-11-12 22:17                             ` Andreas Schwab
  2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
  2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2007-11-12 20:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: dann, Adrian.B.Robert, rms, emacs-devel

> From: Kenichi Handa <handa@ni.aist.go.jp>
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:17:13 +0900
> Cc: Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com, eliz@gnu.org, dann@ics.uci.edu,
> 	emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> I have a few questions about how to re-orgranize
> ChangeLog.unicode for merging.

It's up to Richard, but if it's important not to lose the information
that's now in ChangeLog.unicode, we could perhaps add it verbatim to
the trunk, and then immediately delete it.  It will then remain in the
attic, where everyone could find it (and the main ChangeLog could
state that, in case we forget).

Just a thought.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging
  2007-11-12 20:22                           ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2007-11-12 22:17                             ` Andreas Schwab
  2007-11-13  4:08                               ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: Andreas Schwab @ 2007-11-12 22:17 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: dann, Adrian.B.Robert, Kenichi Handa, rms, emacs-devel

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> It's up to Richard, but if it's important not to lose the information
> that's now in ChangeLog.unicode, we could perhaps add it verbatim to
> the trunk, and then immediately delete it.  It will then remain in the
> attic,

It's already there, just with a different revision.

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, SuSE Labs, schwab@suse.de
SuSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
PGP key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756  01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5
"And now for something completely different."

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging
  2007-11-12 22:17                             ` Andreas Schwab
@ 2007-11-13  4:08                               ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2007-11-13  4:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Andreas Schwab; +Cc: dann, Adrian.B.Robert, handa, rms, emacs-devel

> From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@suse.de>
> Cc: Kenichi Handa <handa@ni.aist.go.jp>, dann@ics.uci.edu,
> 	Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:17:41 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > It's up to Richard, but if it's important not to lose the information
> > that's now in ChangeLog.unicode, we could perhaps add it verbatim to
> > the trunk, and then immediately delete it.  It will then remain in the
> > attic,
> 
> It's already there, just with a different revision.

Well, I didn't know what will happen with it after the branch is
merged onto the trunk.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging
  2007-11-12  5:17                         ` How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging Kenichi Handa
  2007-11-12 20:22                           ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
  2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-11-18 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, eliz, dann, emacs-devel

    (1) As emacs-unicode-2 branch has very long history, the
    changes have been made not only by me.  If the same function
    has been modified by multiple persons, should we sumup
    changes for each person?  If so, the result will be
    confusing because we loose the time-line of changes.

    DATE1 CHANGE1 by A
    DATE2 CHANGE2 by B
    DATE3 CHANGE3 by A
    DATE4 CHANGE4 by B

    will result in:

    by A
      CHANGE1
      CHANGE3
    by B
      CHANGE2
      CHANGE4

    But, usually, it's important to know that CHANGE4 is done
    after CHANGE3.

We should not combine change log entries for two different people.
Each change should be assigned to the correct person.

It is not necessary to preserve the time line of changes in the
simplified change log.  Rather, we think of this as a single change
being installed all at once.  So we will redate the new change log
entries to date these changes are installed in the trunk.

We will preserve permanently the original ChangeLog file for the
unicode-2 branch for whenever someone wants to know the precise
history of the writing of those changes.

    (2) The log files contain this kind of information.

    2007-02-15  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>

	    These changes are to compile a regexp into a pattern that can be
	    used both for multibyte and unibyte targets.

	    * Makefile.in (search.o): Depend on charset.h.
	    ...
    [...]
    2006-06-06  Kenichi Handa  <handa@m17n.org>

	    These changes are for the new font handling codes.

	    * character.c (multibyte_char_to_unibyte_safe): New function.
	    ...

    How to keep this kind of summary information when we sum up
    changes.

Most of these items won't be combined away, so they will stay where
they are and you can leave them after the summaries.  The few
exceptions usually won't matter; but if you think one is important,
you can leave it unchanged and uncombined.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging
  2007-11-12  5:17                         ` How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging Kenichi Handa
  2007-11-12 20:22                           ` Eli Zaretskii
  2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
@ 2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: Richard Stallman @ 2007-11-18 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kenichi Handa; +Cc: Adrian.B.Robert, eliz, dann, emacs-devel

    Even for a new funciton, I want to know why some piece of
    code is in the current shape.  I many times encountered such
    a case that I don't remember why I wrote some code as the
    current way.  In such a case, I read changelogs and get a
    hint.

The best place for that information is in a comment in the code.
If you are about to simplify away a change log item, and you think
it might be relevant for this, or that the reason for the correctness
of the code is not obvious from the code, please put a comment there!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-07  5:52         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-07  6:03           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2007-11-07 14:19           ` Ted Zlatanov
@ 2007-11-24  9:18           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2008-02-12  0:59             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 44+ messages in thread
From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu @ 2007-11-24  9:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

>>>>> On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:52:23 +0900, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> said:

> Actually, as for the Carbon+AppKit port in 64-bit environment, it
> compiles without any `deprecated' warnings and runs, though there
> still remain a few major problems such as suspected ATSUI bug, which
> I've already reported to Apple, and some unexec problem.

The unexec problem seems to be solved.  As I've installed the fix to
the EMACS_22_BASE branch, you can try the 64-bit version of *X11*
build on Leopard by specifying CC='cc -arch ppc64' or CC='cc -arch
x86_64' when running configure.  Of course you need additional 64-bit
versions of libraries to display various types of images.

Could someone test if it works with x86_64?  I only have Leopard on a
ppc64 machine.

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

* Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX
  2007-11-24  9:18           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
@ 2008-02-12  0:59             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 44+ messages in thread
From: YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu @ 2008-02-12  0:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: emacs-devel

>>>>> On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:18:27 +0900, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> said:

>> Actually, as for the Carbon+AppKit port in 64-bit environment, it
>> compiles without any `deprecated' warnings and runs, though there
>> still remain a few major problems such as suspected ATSUI bug,
>> which I've already reported to Apple, and some unexec problem.

> The unexec problem seems to be solved.

The remaining 64-bit ATSUI bug seems to be fixed with Mac OS X 10.5.2
update.

> As I've installed the fix to the EMACS_22_BASE branch, you can try
> the 64-bit version of *X11* build on Leopard by specifying CC='cc
> -arch ppc64' or CC='cc -arch x86_64' when running configure.  Of
> course you need additional 64-bit versions of libraries to display
> various types of images.

> Could someone test if it works with x86_64?  I only have Leopard on
> a ppc64 machine.

Has anyone tested this?

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 44+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2008-02-12  0:59 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 44+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2007-11-06 12:02 Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX CHENG Gao
2007-11-06 12:14 ` CHENG Gao
2007-11-06 12:29 ` Kenichi Handa
2007-11-06 13:52   ` CHENG Gao
2007-11-06 19:28   ` Ted Zlatanov
2007-11-06 23:27     ` Glenn Morris
2007-11-07  4:59       ` Ted Zlatanov
2007-11-07 13:19   ` Carbon port vs. Emacs.app plus Emacs.app problem report w/test-case Mike Mattie
2007-11-07 13:54     ` Ted Zlatanov
2007-11-07 15:45       ` Mike Mattie
2007-11-06 12:34 ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Jason Rumney
2007-11-06 13:58   ` CHENG Gao
2007-11-06 19:26   ` Ted Zlatanov
2007-11-07  4:13     ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2007-11-07  5:24       ` Ted Zlatanov
2007-11-07  5:52         ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2007-11-07  6:03           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2007-11-07 14:19           ` Ted Zlatanov
2007-11-07 14:34             ` Jason Rumney
     [not found]               ` <m2abpqt5mm.fsf@lifelogs.com>
2007-11-07 16:40                 ` Adrian Robert
2007-11-08  4:42               ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-08  1:27             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2007-11-08  2:31               ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2007-11-24  9:18           ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2008-02-12  0:59             ` YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
2007-11-07 14:15     ` Adrian Robert
2007-11-07 15:05       ` Jason Rumney
2007-11-07 16:09         ` Stefan Monnier
2007-11-08  4:42           ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-08 15:56             ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-11-09  4:12               ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-09  7:47                 ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-11-09 10:34                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-11-09 15:09                     ` Dan Nicolaescu
2007-11-10 17:54                       ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-12  5:17                         ` How to re-orgranize ChangeLog.unicode for merging Kenichi Handa
2007-11-12 20:22                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-11-12 22:17                             ` Andreas Schwab
2007-11-13  4:08                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-18 22:47                           ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-07 16:14         ` Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Dan Nicolaescu
2007-11-08  4:42         ` Richard Stallman
2007-11-07 18:30 ` CHENG Gao

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