From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Robert Pluim Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: GNU Emacs raison d'etre - 1981-ish version Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 10:55:34 +0200 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="36334"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: excalamus@tutanota.com, Eduardo Ochs To: excalamus--- via "Emacs development discussions." Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 15 10:56:43 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZW94-0009Lf-6g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 15 May 2020 10:56:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40066 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZW93-0003nk-97 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 15 May 2020 04:56:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58460) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZW82-0002qA-QN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2020 04:55:38 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x32e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32e]:33795) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jZW81-0006EY-Q6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 15 May 2020 04:55:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x32e.google.com with SMTP id g14so16276988wme.1 for ; Fri, 15 May 2020 01:55:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=vtvyn8tbb6klv5qEB8+To0vPKNgU4bxbngx8uJM/0Hc=; b=o3J+eGTIhA8eKSg8vMnENOifCovh6huAWdBvzYr6/UtwBrRNDSUT4ORtDvKH+/KdjG ufoaDj1+M+1sW8MclAwlGk5ZaY9m3VvYcYYMoR2X3k4fGl1cxsKAme7QrkqvT7uNet26 UBJABbe1PyMWF7ge+plqTBrW1HyCUWEV8Cl3NC4UOZidk/eHjdtmf891nK0ZUghvnXFI sPu7wzD5r3wV2XFM9zK/ujj8jjhaLeSYReD5q81vt/qyrUqlPYvcc18zeZ4P2kvWpvz4 SHJ7sCDOk1YpgVR35137/Kbhuc2Ysbt2liiWfWOHAEUGgMOdX57okbVBNg+B1ba1LBFp 0qsg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references :gmane-reply-to-list:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vtvyn8tbb6klv5qEB8+To0vPKNgU4bxbngx8uJM/0Hc=; b=C6jXORA6MMSKL/kbSLvPujl6/Jad89BDd/Oa8b2HYqYuSTWmdkgX27DWLRNaNbA+/T oV1a1L+JWQnBqUG/lxgA0OVvbn+vhlQRizpHThWwSrs8uwVW2YvPRKtSn5JFo9c4Z1oF r/Mjv+aQfgFn6UaUC3HI6Vvb+qK3rhRwAIXRi+4RJ/bVvo5LHBTQ2spAtsU3n0a0aVpp 8tkQf5cUxAadLYrv/OsXmspgNIo7yEFC1GMCvBWWo08IH8Cgd5/0GwAsjkVFq6BKbc2x alw744IOHC1grcGPKrpbTP48x81AQrmPBLWPW8y1SX9f39/xJBt6gUwXhDaenq8aQEwl 6OtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533TyzuIIxOSdSXpxO1ybnoZPbpuS0QnwWPscW7R8FTaCpWzrbpj +CgcAdUXnfldoFIf5V0jBSc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwo4UaH925FTa/46G7+DrOgBqdyoJ1qlardIL1NtKs1HAFNqlZVIs8tXN0uCbuGYR4U0mnsng== X-Received: by 2002:a7b:c2a9:: with SMTP id c9mr2872543wmk.8.1589532935957; Fri, 15 May 2020 01:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from rpluim-mac ([2a01:e34:ecfc:a860:2596:89e6:a99a:9ba2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l1sm2663176wrc.24.2020.05.15.01.55.34 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 15 May 2020 01:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Gmane-Reply-To-List: yes In-Reply-To: (excalamus's message of "Thu, 14 May 2020 23:26:05 +0200 (CEST)") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::32e; envelope-from=rpluim@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x32e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250365 Archived-At: >>>>> On Thu, 14 May 2020 23:26:05 +0200 (CEST), excalamus--- via "Emacs de= velopment discussions." said: Emacs> Emacs presents a challenge to the user.=C2=A0 The challenge can = be solved Emacs> through programming, but the user is unable to do this.=C2=A0 To= help, Emacs> Emacs provides ready made components, functions bound to keys, w= hich Emacs> complete the task when chained together.=C2=A0 The user realizes= at some Emacs> point that 1) these actions are functions and 2) they have the a= bility Emacs> to write them.=C2=A0 Emacs provides the structure required for t= he user to Emacs> learn through source code (higher skill set) and C-h f (assistan= ce). This is a good explanation of why Emacs is the only editing system that doesn=CA=BCt drive me up the wall: I can mold it as I see fit. Emacs> I believe that other editors could occupy this space but do not.= =C2=A0 Emacs> Other editors are either word processors or IDEs.=C2=A0 Emacs is= a hybrid; Emacs> there are authors who use Emacs solely for writing and the are Emacs> developers who use it solely for programming.=C2=A0 Emacs feels = different Emacs> because it shortens the distance between question and answer.=C2= =A0 Other Emacs> editors require searching externally (does MS Word even still ha= ve F1 Emacs> help?).=C2=A0 Emacs can be searched inside and out. Which is one of Emacs' great strengths, but I fear the current generation are missing out on it: I see lots of problem reports saying "website so and so says this, but my Emacs behaves differently", where the solution is to consult the documentation inside emacs. It appears people have become conditioned to doing a web search for manuals, which often don=CA=BCt correspond to their installed version (as a corollary, people almost never specify platform and/or version either in such reports). Robert