fonts in carbon emacs

fonts in carbon emacs

[Peter Novodvorsky]

Hello,

I've install 22.0.50 version of Emacs (from CVS) and was pretty happy
that russian works out of box there (at last!). Howerver, when I try
to change the font (for eg.,  if I tweak the height of default
apple-monaco) all russian letters turn into boxes. Even if I change
the height back all russian letters are still remain as boxes.

Does anyone understand what happens?

Peter.

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Peter Novodvorsky]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 12:21:43 +0400
>>>>> "PN" == Peter Novodvorsky <nidd@myxomop.com> wrote:
PN> 
PN> Hello,
PN> I've installed 22.0.50 version of Emacs (from CVS) and was pretty happy
PN> that russian works out of box there (at last!). Howerver, when I try
PN> to change the font (for eg.,  if I tweak the height of default
PN> apple-monaco) all russian letters turn into boxes. Even if I change
PN> the height back all russian letters are still remain as boxes.

I've tried to create a new frame in Mac OS X, same thing happens. When
I try to enter cyrillics in newly created frame it draws empty boxes.

Peter.

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Takashi Hiromatsu]

> I've install 22.0.50 version of Emacs (from CVS) and was pretty happy
> that russian works out of box there (at last!). Howerver, when I try
> to change the font (for eg.,  if I tweak the height of default
> apple-monaco) all russian letters turn into boxes. Even if I change
> the height back all russian letters are still remain as boxes.
> 
> Does anyone understand what happens?

Please set fontset like as below.

(create-fontset-from-fontset-spec
 (concat 
  "-*-monaco-medium-r-normal-*-14-*-*-*-*-*-fontset-monaco14" 
  ",ascii:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-*-*-m-*-mac-*"
  ",latin-iso8859-1:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",greek-iso8859-7:-apple-symbol-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-symbol"
  ",latin-iso8859-9:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",latin-iso8859-15:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",mac-roman-lower:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",mac-roman-upper:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",mule-unicode-0100-24ff:-apple-symbol-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-symbol"
  ",mule-unicode-2500-33ff:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",mule-unicode-e000-ffff:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",iso10646-1:-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-*"
  ",latin-iso8859-2:-apple-monaco ce-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-centraleurroman"
  ",cyrillic-iso8859-5:-apple-monaco cy-medium-r-normal--14-*-75-75-m-*-mac-cyrillic"
  ))

(set-default-font "fontset-monaco14")
(setq default-frame-alist
      (append
       (list
        '(font . "fontset-monaco14") 
        ) default-frame-alist)
      )

T. Hiromatsu      

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "Takashi" == Takashi Hiromatsu <matsuan@ca2.so-net.ne.jp> writes:

>> Does anyone understand what happens?

Takashi> Please set fontset like as below.

That doesn't explain it.  How does that fix it?  What if I don't want
that exact fontset?

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Peter Novodvorsky]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:56:43 +0900
>>>>> "TH" == Takashi Hiromatsu <matsuan@ca2.so-net.ne.jp> wrote:
TH> 
TH> 
TH> Please set fontset like as below.
TH> 
TH> (create-fontset-from-fontset-spec
TH>  (concat 
TH> ....
TH>       )

It works great when I'm switching with leim C-\, however when I try to
switch group with Mac OS's native switch it draws some strange
symbols. Is it possible to make emacs look at global group and switch
leim one accordingly?

Another problem that persists is that when I try to customize default font
(I want another background for font), I get in the same situation I
was before? How can I change background for each font generated from
fontset? 

Thanks a lot.
Peter.

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Peter Novodvorsky]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 18:56:43 +0900
>>>>> "TH" == Takashi Hiromatsu <matsuan@ca2.so-net.ne.jp> wrote:

TH> Please set fontset like as below.

And utf-8 letters are not readable in gnus after this fonset is set as
default. 

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:11:25 +0400, Peter Novodvorsky <nidd@myxomop.com> said:

> It works great when I'm switching with leim C-\, however when I try
> to switch group with Mac OS's native switch it draws some strange
> symbols. Is it possible to make emacs look at global group and
> switch leim one accordingly?

That's what I mentioned "tons of wrong glyphs" in
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2005-06/msg00547.html.

Please refer to its followup messages to see how to customize a
fontset so that it may not introduce wrong glyphs.

> Another problem that persists is that when I try to customize
> default font (I want another background for font), I get in the same
> situation I was before? How can I change background for each font
> generated from fontset?

The reason is that a fontset associated to a face is reverted to a
font once the face is customized.  For example, "M-x describe-face RET
default RET" says

  Font or fontset: fontset-mac

just after startup.  But after evaluating "(set-face-attribute
'default nil :height 130)", it becomes

  Font or fontset: -apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--13-130-75-75-m-130-mac-roman

I'm not sure whether it's possible to preserve fontset after such
customization.  A workaround is to customize "fontset-default" as
follows:

  (fontset-add-mac-fonts "fontset-default" "monaco")

But it has some drawbacks that 1) It does harm to ETL font users, and
2) Font family for Central-European/Cyrillic fonts are not
synchronized with that for the ASCII (or mac-roman) font.

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Peter Novodvorsky]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:15:42 +0900
>>>>> "YM" == YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> wrote:
YM> 
>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:11:25 +0400, Peter Novodvorsky <nidd@myxomop.com> said:
YM> 
YM> That's what I mentioned "tons of wrong glyphs" in
YM> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2005-06/msg00547.html.

Great reading, thanks!

YM> Please refer to its followup messages to see how to customize a
YM> fontset so that it may not introduce wrong glyphs.

I've changed it to (create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font... and now it
works flawlessly. 

YM> I'm not sure whether it's possible to preserve fontset after such
YM> customization.  A workaround is to customize "fontset-default" as
YM> follows:
YM> фывафыва
YM>   (fontset-add-mac-fonts "fontset-default" "monaco")

>From my point of view it's a bug in emacs, because:
a). cyrillics don't work even if I do everything that is needed how it
is written in documenation. 
b). even if I use advices from developers, still functions from menus
don't work. 

YM> But it has some drawbacks that 1) It does harm to ETL font users, and
YM> 2) Font family for Central-European/Cyrillic fonts are not
YM> synchronized with that for the ASCII (or mac-roman) font.

Is there a way how it can be fixed in normal way? Could you give me
any idea about that, so I can dig in that direction?

Peter.

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Peter Novodvorsky]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:15:42 +0900
>>>>> "YM" == YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> wrote:
YM> 

YM> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2005-06/msg00547.html.

YM> As for the "tons of wrong glyphs" problem, I think that's due to a
YM> misuse of the function, rather than a bug.  The function
YM> create-fontset-from-fontset-spec is suitable only for the case that
YM> all the characters in a single charset are displayed with a single
YM> font.  But that's not the case for fonts in Mac encodings.

Could you please tell me, where's the problem with mac encodings?
isn't latin-1 is subset of mac-roman and iso-8859-5 is subset of
mac-cyrillic? 

Again, is advice written here

http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-07/msg00197.html

is "officialy wrong"?

Peter.

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Takashi Hiromatsu]

> Again, is advice written here
> 
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-07/msg00197.html
> 
> is "officialy wrong"?

Maybe yes after these changes.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004-11-30  YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu  <mituharu at math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp>

	* term/mac-win.el (ccl-encode-mac-roman-font)
	(ccl-encode-mac-cyrillic-font)
	(ccl-encode-mac-centraleuropean-font, encoder-list)
	(fontset-add-mac-fonts, create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font):
	Support Cyrillic, CentralEuropean, and Dingbat font display> 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I've lost this. I have to change lot of pre-defined fontset in
carbon-font.el.

T. Hiromatsu

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Takashi Hiromatsu]

- emacs-pretest-bug
> Please don't just guess.  Fontsets defined with
> create-fontset-from-ascii-font can also display non-ascii fonts (if
> corresponding fonts are installed).  Unspecified parts are
> complemented using the data in "fontset-default" and others.
> 
> I've been using fontsets defined with
> create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font and I can display CJK characters as
> well as mac-roman, mac-centraleurroman, mac-cyrillic, mac-symbol, and
> mac-dingbats characters.

Could you tell me, what is correct to use "hiragino" font instead of
"osaka", that is choosen by create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font?

T. Hiromatsu

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu]

>>>>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 05:01:59 +0900, Takashi Hiromatsu <matsuan@ca2.so-net.ne.jp> said:

> Could you tell me, what is correct to use "hiragino" font instead of
> "osaka", that is choosen by create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font?

You can do that in the same way as in other platforms.  For example,

  (set-fontset-font "fontset-NAME" 'japanese-jisx0208
                    '("ヒラギノ角ゴ*" . "jisx0208.*"))
  (set-fontset-font "fontset-NAME" 'japanese-jisx0201
                    '("ヒラギノ角ゴ*" . "jisx0201.*"))

Cf. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-03/msg01174.html

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 17:25:05 +0400, Peter Novodvorsky <nidd@myxomop.com> said:

> Could you please tell me, where's the problem with mac encodings?
> isn't latin-1 is subset of mac-roman and iso-8859-5 is subset of
> mac-cyrillic?

Mostly yes for iso-8859-5, but no for latin-1.  Try M-x
describe-fontset RET fontset-mac RET.

> Again, is advice written here
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-07/msg00197.html
> is "officialy wrong"?

I'm not at the position that can make any "official" statements.
Nothing can prevent users from doing their preferred settings.  Also,
the current create-fontset-from-mac-roman has a performance problem
that I'm now taking up
(http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-pretest-bug/2005-07/msg00007.html).
I'd just say "I don't recommend the use of
create-fontset-from-fontset-spec on Carbon Emacs."

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Takashi Hiromatsu]

> > I've been using fontsets defined with
> > create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font and I can display CJK characters as
> > well as mac-roman, mac-centraleurroman, mac-cyrillic, mac-symbol, and
> > mac-dingbats characters.
> 
> Could you tell me, what is correct to use "hiragino" font instead of
> "osaka", that is choosen by create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font?
> 
> T. Hiromatsu

I've tried 'set-fontset-font

After create a fontset like as below,
(create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font
 "-apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--8-*-*-*-*-*-mac-roman" nil "monaco08")

evaluate this.
(set-fontset-font
 "*monaco08"
 'japanese-jisx0208
 "-apple-ヒラギノ丸ゴ pro w4-medium-r-normal--8-*-*-*-m-*-jisx0208.1983-sjis" 
 )

OK, I can see specified fonts. But it is not scaleable.

Also, I tried this.
(set-fontset-font
 "*monaco08"
 'japanese-jisx0208
 "-apple-ヒラギノ丸ゴ pro w4-medium-r-normal--*-*-*-*-m-*-jisx0208.1983-sjis" 
 )
Only -12- size fonts were used.

I experienced, when I use 'face-ignored-fonts, Japanese font, choosed
automatically, became scaleable. But, if the font name has japanese
characters, 'face-ignored-fonts doesn't work correctly.

Is there any special functions to set CJK fonts on MAC OSX, like
'create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font ?

T. Hiromatsu

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Takashi Hiromatsu]

> > Could you tell me, what is correct to use "hiragino" font instead of
> > "osaka", that is choosen by create-fontset-from-mac-roman-font?
> 
> You can do that in the same way as in other platforms.  For example,
> 
>   (set-fontset-font "fontset-NAME" 'japanese-jisx0208
>                     '("ヒラギノ角ゴ*" . "jisx0208.*"))
>   (set-fontset-font "fontset-NAME" 'japanese-jisx0201
>                     '("ヒラギノ角ゴ*" . "jisx0201.*"))

I just tried this.
Oh, hell! I got scaleable japanese fonts. I've been burdened with this
near one year.
Thanks a lot!!!

Could you tell me what is wrong in,
(set-fontset-font
 "*monaco08"
 'japanese-jisx0208
 "-apple-ヒラギノ丸ゴ pro w4-medium-r-normal--8-*-*-*-m-*-jisx0208.1983-sjis" 
 )

 T.Hiromatsu

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[Stefan Monnier]

> just after startup.  But after evaluating "(set-face-attribute
> 'default nil :height 130)", it becomes

>   Font or fontset: -apple-monaco-medium-r-normal--13-130-75-75-m-130-mac-roman

That looks like one of the sources of problems.
Does someone know why this happens?


        Stefan

Re: fonts in carbon emacs

[YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu]

>>>>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:15:42 +0900, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu <mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> said:

> A workaround is to customize "fontset-default" as follows:

>   (fontset-add-mac-fonts "fontset-default" "monaco")

> But it has some drawbacks that 1) It does harm to ETL font users,

On second thought, this is not related to users who don't use these
fonts.  So we can do like (unless (x-list-fonts "*-iso8859-1")
(fontset-add-mac-fonts ...)).

> and 2) Font family for Central-European/Cyrillic fonts are not
> synchronized with that for the ASCII (or mac-roman) font.

This issue would be eased by making the font family matching slightly
more flexible as follows (the change is for Mac only):

Index: src/xfaces.c
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/emacs/emacs/src/xfaces.c,v
retrieving revision 1.330
diff -c -r1.330 xfaces.c
*** src/xfaces.c	11 Jul 2005 14:28:21 -0000	1.330
--- src/xfaces.c	13 Jul 2005 08:36:08 -0000
***************
*** 6745,6758 ****
      nfonts = try_alternative_families (f, try_family, registry, fonts);
  
  #ifdef MAC_OS
!   /* When realizing the default face and a font spec does not matched
!      exactly, Emacs looks for ones with the same registry as the
!      default font.  On the Mac, this is mac-roman, which does not work
!      if the family is -etl-fixed, e.g.  The following widens the
!      choices and fixes that problem.  */
!   if (nfonts == 0 && STRINGP (try_family) && STRINGP (registry)
!       && xstricmp (SDATA (registry), "mac-roman") == 0)
!     nfonts = try_alternative_families (f, try_family, Qnil, fonts);
  #endif
  
    if (EQ (try_family, family))
--- 6745,6765 ----
      nfonts = try_alternative_families (f, try_family, registry, fonts);
  
  #ifdef MAC_OS
!   if (nfonts == 0 && STRINGP (try_family) && STRINGP (registry))
!     if (xstricmp (SDATA (registry), "mac-roman") == 0)
!       /* When realizing the default face and a font spec does not
! 	 matched exactly, Emacs looks for ones with the same registry
! 	 as the default font.  On the Mac, this is mac-roman, which
! 	 does not work if the family is -etl-fixed, e.g.  The
! 	 following widens the choices and fixes that problem.  */
!       nfonts = try_alternative_families (f, try_family, Qnil, fonts);
!     else if (SBYTES (try_family) > 0
! 	     && SREF (try_family, SBYTES (try_family) - 1) != '*')
!       /* Some Central European/Cyrillic font family names have the
! 	 Roman counterpart name as their prefix.  */
!       nfonts = try_alternative_families (f, concat2 (try_family,
! 						     build_string ("*")),
! 					 registry, fonts);
  #endif
  
    if (EQ (try_family, family))

I've made these changes to the CVS, and now change of the height by
customize-face works for the "default" face.  They are still
workarounds and do not solve the problem mentioned in (*1), which is
not specific to Mac, but I think the situation has become better than
before.

(*1) http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-07/msg00336.html

				     YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu
				mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp