From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Carbon port emacs-unicode-2 build problem under MacOSX Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2007 08:19:07 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: References: <47305F6E.2030204@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1194445188 1833 80.91.229.12 (7 Nov 2007 14:19:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 14:19:48 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 07 15:19:52 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Iplkt-0002bC-5K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:19:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iplkh-0001MW-A4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:19:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Iplkd-0001LR-5q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:19:27 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Iplkb-0001Kj-UX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:19:26 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Iplkb-0001KW-Hm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:19:25 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IplkZ-0001xc-DB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:19:24 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IplkQ-0001U0-Ow for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:19:14 +0000 Original-Received: from c-67-186-103-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net ([67.186.103.18]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:19:14 +0000 Original-Received: from tzz by c-67-186-103-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:19:14 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 59 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-67-186-103-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6; d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/22.1.50 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:6fHH4VcSH59QHMd5U4E6tX611To= X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:82737 Archived-At: On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 14:52:23 +0900 YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:24:22 -0600, Ted Zlatanov said: >> That aside, it has better integration with the MacOS, a nice >> Preferences dialog, better font rendering, and other improvements >> listed in the ChangeLog. YM> What is "better integration with the MacOS", concretely? You and I could look through the ChangeLog and see all the differences. As an example, the MacOS font and color pickers are available. I think those are much better than the default cross-platform font/color pickers. YM> In what sense the font rendering in the Carbon port is worse? According to the ChangeLog they have improved several aspects of the font rendering; to me it looks better. I could be wrong. YM> And I don't think the Preference dialog that can't be controlled from YM> Emacs Lisp is suitable for Emacs. I don't know about this. I think this is a good thing because it works better for new users, and the regular Customize interface is still available under Options->Customize Emacs. On the other hand, it's inconsistent with other platforms to have a special preferences dialog. YM> It says about the *GUI* APIs in Carbon, not the whole Carbon APIs. YM> That's why I'm making the Carbon+AppKit port (for Emacs 22) mentioned YM> elsewhere: YM> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2007-09/msg00395.html Note the Cocoa port offers GNUstep compatibility, which Richard has mentioned is important. This may be important to the Emacs project; I don't have an opinion. I can look at your port too. But I can't find it online. Is it available? I'll gladly test it, offer suggestions, etc. if you need that assistance. It's hard to say more about your work or compare it with the Cocoa port otherwise. >> I assumed that the deprecation warnings I saw while compiling the >> Carbon port were Apple's way of telling developers the Carbon APIs >> are deprecated. Am I wrong? YM> It wouldn't go away soon for the binary compatibility for existing YM> Carbon applications. And the warnings are not about the whole Carbon, YM> again. Actually, as for the Carbon+AppKit port in 64-bit environment, YM> it compiles without any `deprecated' warnings and runs, though there YM> still remain a few major problems such as suspected ATSUI bug, which YM> I've already reported to Apple, and some unexec problem. Thank you for the information. Sounds like Carbon is only deprecated selectively (the GUI portions as you mentioned) so it's not as dead as I thought. Ted