From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:31:56 -0800 Message-ID: References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: John Wiegley NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457368344 21793 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 16:32:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:32:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 17:32:17 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1acy4s-0006Cw-AR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 17:32:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56873 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy4r-0000eq-Rf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:32:13 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56961) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy4o-0000eI-Pn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:32:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy4k-0002yE-Q2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:32:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pf0-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22b]:35935) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1acy4e-0002x3-RM; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 11:32:00 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id 63so82324366pfe.3; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:32:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=U54WgmJbgSK/1dPRLP/MIrBC8sSK+p32CPJRNsjxtBc=; b=RGdT6tW/ZMGN/+fZEB5by/GAKnhHP7+pHVuCCR8JvvApTJDYLqpqRmMu7c+8PEmMDv yFb4w8UDtkwUCQ1GCbMIYv2yhCfSlkpYJkcElMnrq722d/pVdH6QSHUgxyGsXW/Nt2c4 DccmdS6+xqhgkZjGlqH+6Wg12bX5ORd8FhvII3erw0ifnHt8ovjVtIiT8EeM8iLj43/W p5isGzOdyqu2TLy6Pb0OqXsBC0FXxyiT5V9rOoyL4c5bwo3avw4a/3VS0+rNONU3oK/q wG+hikMnY6uWcwy2bBh8Ni9RbaDe9/9rOpEyMq6NaGMj1QeybCvus7z8ntrAxxeYzXpt Ymcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:reply-to:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=U54WgmJbgSK/1dPRLP/MIrBC8sSK+p32CPJRNsjxtBc=; b=MIYQFhUZdj9ElUtyxY/TNTeM/45bRBF1w6L83CLTGBEDxB7UF59vxygwkL4+jA6MPS k7DzefYRDv9/KU8vCyq+nNjf+3RGkRI2crDd2JsuwhcBW+g8YwCXi4Xc1KloDA0SVSRI tbk4jexl0GMyD3J+LhRjNnNT69OJj3M6mULxFecdzOte3bmdAE25Kmz+c6R5FtZ6nzMn jynoZoWB4mragNyH7N9kwRQw/rOgJFMHgAWIa8li1MdhXXKjnqW1K4SUTHTUwe0co1HG PcTFgxcf8FQ3etb/vVUYps6Xjjtg2oFvzGy/XsFm44uhhifSyrC7LyLd6kGcNIw6G8Xa L69A== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJKRrri5FBvltayXhXlzbh041T3528RD4AYRpjlZzpSOZzqYNVKszNqmd88gWzTjbw== X-Received: by 10.98.80.22 with SMTP id e22mr34066969pfb.15.1457368320083; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:32:00 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r68sm25176448pfb.51.2016.03.07.08.31.59 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 08:31:59 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: John Wiegley Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8F6991352E7BA; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 08:31:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 07 Mar 2016 18:28:09 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.92 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201055 Archived-At: >>>>> Eli Zaretskii writes: > It is IMO a grave mistake to remove parts of our development process just > because they need to be learned by new contributors. The result will be > increased burden on the shoulders of those who review the submissions, due > to the need to coach them, catch their mistakes, ask for re-submissions, > etc. It will eventually be a net loss, because those contributors will not > enjoy the need to produce several versions of the patch before it is > admitted, and the reviewers will not enjoy the extra burden. I agree with you, Eli. The question: What is the role of _ChangeLog_ in this. Most other projects don't have them, and I don't hear them complaining. So what is the exact merit of the format, and why should we continue to require it in spite of its costs? -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2