From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PCL [Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2023 16:13:42 +0100 Message-ID: References: <9ab5d2bd-a648-cae0-a4a7-ae86be10af0f@gutov.dev> <87r0kuqxbf.fsf@gmail.com> <54e115a2-fc36-3056-a030-0dbf32416ddb@gutov.dev> <43f290b0-4119-597b-c89a-0fb4c7db1665@gutov.dev> <1e7fe1ef-af7d-3222-7b9e-b569b3c97ccf@gutov.dev> <22e4cb4d-a8f3-1530-881d-b8c59c5d969b@gutov.dev> <339b58d6-5a44-8393-c2cd-4c935147dde3@gutov.dev> <877cmhrcsf.fsf@gmail.com> <20231120.200040.1734438601830491358.enometh@meer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17205"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Madhu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 20 16:14:40 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r55ys-00046p-AX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 16:14:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r55y9-0001SE-JH; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:13:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r55y7-0001Ih-Vd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:13:48 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::335]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r55y6-0004T4-E1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 10:13:47 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-40907b82ab9so10874165e9.1 for ; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 07:13:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700493224; x=1701098024; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=GOvgw44Ctp5mbOdWbO1hL2zLsHA9DTqWYfER5wXzJlY=; b=a5QqPaSgHvn8UlbgXN9/Wc8BSeoVnJ/KNgiKkS84Ejln5jmnh0yaogqBNsattlQizi 6xcJwo5hpPIT86PzXBP1MipcX38v/nMKmBkiIogXTyKzcqrWbHXhhlh+uSdAkDkx7evp s1zrGTrsxDj9PzDkovSdJS+mJsUJRb6RLxytusxi5iaaobPBTayosdcFJoczQk3H1iVW ZcrF1U/ZJumJQdsjYZTsEtnwRrzNa3WGjZVXbC87BMDliAAQwu8BVBW6R7uMNW/6tHZE qho6AMUO0fxNjvQXYU6niFBm4YjALeiWIzZJToXjEgp/TmfFqpOJcX2lh3bczzXhZeTs oWkQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700493224; x=1701098024; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=GOvgw44Ctp5mbOdWbO1hL2zLsHA9DTqWYfER5wXzJlY=; b=O229uTYEGBoqbEP9K68YREK7A/3s9FPfUQEDxsuIEJq9B/UO0CI+IdAO6K9wvw9181 qCxmEIntG7z9Y5f9ArNE0+P/oVa9WVmBUssN3uk+U9y5EeKISJbDZmCqE5FL1bn315nS ZZ6q1EosUUPVNig8PrViEi3W1Vag+vYOasNnfH/OAhoceeTbmFQwRYt16wcwUkGjyqK6 TYSSY/315kzXM4hsG9XoNY2CyOlG2mCSZTdyLkqXSTy3ARX6T8ZLmt91NSVAK9+pDget /xJAx32/dzSINhcOugmkN/lbB6B2+xLcTfDSGSmqsaEFak3sRRJFQhAwftjdfFtmYLSR DUlQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywbg2QNJI9VOOK0YZrkcKzGaZyKomzCg5tBcmBXNmdQ4rOihP2x 5GTx1EFFn2dhCz3S9cNIZH+6csoPSGA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFRAVGiJeFPdyfnueYYwhut21rSrvKV2qOLhlR1Tl4R7hna2zkhYHzFTzPGs+HSiQZtwq9qKQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4e42:b0:407:5de2:ea4d with SMTP id e2-20020a05600c4e4200b004075de2ea4dmr11645349wmq.13.1700493224090; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 07:13:44 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Pro.fritz.box (p4fe3afe4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [79.227.175.228]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bg3-20020a05600c3c8300b004077219aed5sm18593057wmb.6.2023.11.20.07.13.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 20 Nov 2023 07:13:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20231120.200040.1734438601830491358.enometh@meer.net> (Madhu's message of "Mon, 20 Nov 2023 20:00:40 +0530 (IST)") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::335; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x335.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313054 Archived-At: Madhu writes: > * Gerd M?llmann : >> And I'm not saying it's bad! There are very very very (did I say very >> enough?) good reasons to try and avoid the incredible complexity of >> something like PCL. > > There are advantages in the complexity of PCL. Techincally, 100%. > For instance, AFAIK there > is no way to undefine a method defined with cl-defmethod after defining > it without restartimg emacs, which I think misses the fundamental point > about Lisp. I would have guessed fmakunbound + defgeneric would do the trick. So that the gf gets a new, empty, cache. Haven't tried, though.