From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Preview: portable dumper Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:28:08 -0800 Message-ID: References: <047a67ec-9e29-7e4e-0fb0-24c3e59b5886@dancol.org> <83zikjxt1j.fsf@gnu.org> <8360n6ruzu.fsf@gnu.org> <83y402qcpw.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1480451430 24261 195.159.176.226 (29 Nov 2016 20:30:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2016 20:30:30 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.1.50 (darwin) Cc: Daniel Colascione , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 29 21:30:25 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cBp2m-00053o-7E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 21:30:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39158 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBp2o-0007bL-FH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:30:26 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37707) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBp2a-0007ZE-6M for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:30:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBp2Z-0002bw-Ca for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:30:12 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pg0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234]:33136) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cBp2U-0002UQ-2K; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 15:30:06 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 3so73139663pgd.0; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:30:05 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references :user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=2LxlFaMjxNXufwiAUzWXoEPcPFEc5riIqZw+NzXSzWw=; b=ZX9A5+z7m1Qpclmz38tEZixSxM4+Xs4X4V66nerxKVSv5YlXtcWWDu7a1VE5mxCJH2 LNseO+valbW8C6zjSaenfjwxKOR2WhuemNNIKha6SkQeevV9/cLrxMdMHG5zc5qxJeGd JMI9QXnN0QuPFnG5TlNX5BHChrbLRIBzyBdobBlLIogfX7e6Dzdjqy4LOl7w2G7bBT2I d/u4isAGG74yEfNwOY3MgCvi/xJ3qxeBpzyxQqHaEAWtqyljXJPTzMIKTefMLLMAZDDW n9kWlvCz2pC8/Voxq/eaiYzFOK+rH2Ur5mv2/XgFjzvvAQpTx1T/KXfYF2/RX6rymvIK xc8Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=2LxlFaMjxNXufwiAUzWXoEPcPFEc5riIqZw+NzXSzWw=; b=PCn/o8i7uCo1ETrb+6/It6vjDDm9LND8TjI4KZtkfsDKRplrb6EUpGsU86w2m0Hcfo Xc3dGuOxNYHDCsfKkyPapyYlybtETZ1lUpv1UDhsMY6cQqT9feySsgAWuclY2DnHEU9k wQc3tvYLSYMZrYBr4rDAKc7XxBxNuL3hCvupSG0q/0oLO/puu+9AnO5qg8+hFvyUjD1T NU85Qa4KCvTatigOyZuDjyIyUwH6h5RW/+xG2QVMOz4ecVOyutvMpIcwMoxq4UjCEkG1 5OBcHNZwPAWMvZR/wZqogAzcBzJdzM3EmtgSeHUUUJ/1l8SONUIYId59Yln9fBXNAkm6 jxnw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC02C0zxcG7/rhLsjxtsW2ySkkc5enpfE/w9UEHhj16gpzXqwY9pFa6xTreGRNxYUOg== X-Received: by 10.99.42.80 with SMTP id q77mr53451119pgq.170.1480451404332; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:30:04 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-69-149.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.69.149]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q27sm97119099pfd.49.2016.11.29.12.30.02 (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:30:02 -0800 (PST) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8F0CF45CF4D7; Tue, 29 Nov 2016 12:30:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83y402qcpw.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 29 Nov 2016 21:59:23 +0200") Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , Daniel Colascione , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c05::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:209763 Archived-At: >>>>> "EZ" == Eli Zaretskii writes: >> We have to assume a certain baseline level of skill on the part of our >> future colleagues. I don't want to dumb down our implementation for the >> sake of people we don't know and who, for all we know, may never actually >> appear. EZ> You are insulting most of the people on this list, some of them long-time EZ> and fruitful contributors. They don't deserve that. Eli, I don't read any insult here, just Daniel questioning the fear that we'd code ourselves into oblivion if core allowed any more complexity. I think we all want more Lisp and less C, I've seen you both say as much. The real point being debated is whether some additional C wouldn't help us in the interim. Note that I've seen both statements become true: Complex core that repulsed new contributors, and new contributors willing to learn anything to help a project. -- John Wiegley GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2