From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs 25.0.04: Feature Request: Make called-interactively-p's argument optional Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:09:27 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467763819 12308 80.91.229.3 (6 Jul 2016 00:10:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2016 00:10:19 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jul 06 02:10:12 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bKaPr-0006lr-VT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2016 02:10:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58638 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKaPr-0003tv-4f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:10:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51064) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKaPJ-0003so-KG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:09:38 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKaPG-0001B9-Cc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:09:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x229.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::229]:33708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bKaPG-0001Ay-5K for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 20:09:34 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-x229.google.com with SMTP id b13so71596548pat.0 for ; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:09:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:references:user-agent :mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=awd3dqqke3rTBzudxVv65meGIPgO9O55R7i08OqlbQM=; b=V71gPlnUNTZRzzFV5Z72zLCBB7BrTuSLPpKBxhehmBZ76tC/O050rmX9ChTYwF99xn wF05tJnq7SQgAsFe6nRK9Y/v+XOQea1FF8WGjZXO6Q3c0DgjhExSjvhRTO5UtJ1S6bGT pvFJusLcTbrhYFrdN0RSTdwqmFUqUryHv29q29dv12R9mgL9kIajrxZnbd6ehk91t8r1 pNeR6is++9VWdYdA1UBUnN9i3xq0Ncrbhp5fkVVPzm9sEU9lFioNsLvE3XCPwTSxgftH FqctitWOaVwehIxB458gKG+RA6N2MsYul4gSj6i1m1/ZzN4DkF+ZbDAOiez105DQd1ta /lsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version; bh=awd3dqqke3rTBzudxVv65meGIPgO9O55R7i08OqlbQM=; b=Q0G/f1RMRMwJNC0pGGRMS6wEVOH2NjVIhNnA0NloQGW9dhUGOO+apFHP1IippaLotk xmuaoGL4bsIdpplodVqDWLTSXkfV0HK56g1PlhYVzLc8jY8w61x6V2WBKbpC/z7GvQKy PBNgbet6HJPkOLRjmLIEiuSJQoyhknjvCUg7c6ONQ2ECkf5qKz4qyM7KFSoG8PM+v4i9 aV1OIfEBkxr/RwBseZ2Upkciv4039W8m8RlfzRCoDdQ7BkyOrGqD0AdVmJXkpaZPpqqK +3i8tq9RadeLilWs26JJmBP6lgk+SaiJ67FShfvFjOyzVbTHzor0kAxvfMipylQ1Bex/ MD6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJq4gFt3O3isdIr9M3TP7SJZz6zNr6V0/dfJL8gQZgw3uLACgbPpnZKIYIfelHzVA== X-Received: by 10.66.221.134 with SMTP id qe6mr23703738pac.76.1467763773309; Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:09:33 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o6sm244343pax.9.2016.07.05.17.09.32 for (version=TLS1 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Jul 2016 17:09:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Original-From: "John Wiegley" Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 89BC1FABD8E; Tue, 5 Jul 2016 17:09:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Glenn Morris's message of "Tue, 28 Jun 2016 16:29:15 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/25.0.95 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::229 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205222 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>>>> Glenn Morris writes: > It's easy to search for prior discussion on this. Eg > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-07/msg00326.html > That would defeat the whole purpose (which is to force the author to m= ake > a choice between the two kinds, rather than to use one without knowing > that there's a choice). I do not think this is a good argument. Desiring authors to know about such= a distinction is one thing; so document it well. But forcing authors who *do* know the distinction to be explicit about it always -- just so they don't m= iss out on becoming educated the first time -- is poor design. Simple and common patterns should be simple, because they are common. They should not be made laborious "to promote education". If a developer is uneducated about the options, they can be made aware. This isn't the only place where a mistake can be made by choosing an incorrect option without warning. Is a bad argument to `called-interactively-p' really so dangerous that we require a conscious choice for every point of use? Cargo-culting will result in this explicit option being copied without understanding anyway, so the explicitness is not a guarantee against misuse. I'm completely OK with a patch to undeprecate (interactive-p), even if this reverses previous decisions. I do not feel beholden to past thinking that makes little sense to me, just for petty consistency; I trust people can le= arn to adapt to any change we make (or, in this case, unmake). =2D-=20 John Wiegley GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F http://newartisans.com 60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2 --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQGcBAEBCgAGBQJXfEw3AAoJEMFE2PTxn+YwXm0L/1+LZq6MKpiVE5ybOlVVNy93 uuN+jfBW/r1G8Zsuh1pE1CV3gPsbe7kHfZGtytx0Qem9GHHUJU9/ExWx4ueJEo1Z SMXGBJEajw6Q0Fpu7h67QZfBM8oZDs/m61eLKw0/WBvb+8vQWWRPHpy6AuUqTa8i fAzINAY4Tk8DOL4H3bDQVYfnrHxCXGh6ctKT1DtDX2qAi/9yAdguAJzOEQnKee2N H3oBtTS6JNL6/BsOYk/+5NyKPmf8I8EM32dSAyfz3W08fPdDgd/nNG+mtplWSq9E OKE8yga8XYAYkLUa+u37evAQb/iGDwpZDxGE1WYLy6G2chG4FHsdrWVX6DATf+1g WmFzxJJg1EMNAzk/aBybIgFu47U3vhIxeV/3BtJgDvrz3g8R5Ib15OPLBMKXOjnl +NyYtcH46AekeO1m1W1Za015fCOHYgoHJtYwJWcwG4Q+7qwUCsK8L9Q3HK3kwdxR gnnM/fFL1wFKWH/XVJLkmd7s3+fvG6rOJqz8WCcgug== =iDBX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--