From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master 9b762c35a1: Add Sefirot to Omer counting Date: Mon, 09 May 2022 09:41:08 -0500 Message-ID: References: <83y1zcwq56.fsf@gnu.org> <20220509.075441.710349049819527507.enometh@meer.net> <83wneuuccs.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25055"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1 (darwin) Cc: enometh@meer.net, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 09 17:53:38 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1no5ha-0006La-0t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 17:53:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49126 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no5hY-0000O6-Ec for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 11:53:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49212) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no4Ze-000567-Fi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 09 May 2022 10:41:24 -0400 Original-Received: from ci74p00im-qukt09081901.me.com ([17.57.156.8]:6465) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1no4Zb-0005Te-Ic; Mon, 09 May 2022 10:41:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericcbrown.com; s=sig1; t=1652107276; bh=6IlwYjJm4w7c4BhNkxwKpl94dd4WMSs/DoBIQDbyep4=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=BoeAO4moiUF9+RBal6xod/nGkU4jxNdYKtbBwG4fp14hw5BN3gX4EGxSoUdS6Hn8m dyeL0rbwwgWc4UVIKSWO8v2VVsUSqa+H1hwyzw3zh0SOr/nRKi1HoB0HVNpSo/KCTO ttpIqSkTPiWtpSSVsGBmpeVRA4VXreGXsAxWlhDdUzgXjY1rLUBQarM6xEsMvxPTF3 7uZRlwoxGMJJxCawyLiNLFKCSThiDoj3TC9og4C6Ty2zwoqrD6Pz1VwFd2eGh9ohsJ wn08+m/02odK8ZILpsM6t8XkxD5HWlKOgZfgAqrXdfzcMq7MzFgd9JRfxw/TxxS+n9 5DovASSM6jbKg== Original-Received: from ecbrown.ericcbrown.com (ci77p00im-dlb-asmtp-mailmevip.me.com [17.57.156.26]) by ci74p00im-qukt09081901.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0048A5AC0627; Mon, 9 May 2022 14:41:12 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83wneuuccs.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 09 May 2022 15:20:03 +0300") X-Proofpoint-GUID: c3-P7i8QYIHBBQdZWypI-zjUCTtEKqcm X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: c3-P7i8QYIHBBQdZWypI-zjUCTtEKqcm X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: =?UTF-8?Q?vendor=3Dfsecure_engine=3D1.1.170-22c6f66c430a71ce266a39bfe25bc?= =?UTF-8?Q?2903e8d5c8f:6.0.138,18.0.790,17.11.62.513.0000000_definitions?= =?UTF-8?Q?=3D2022-01-12=5F03:2020-02-14=5F02,2022-01-12=5F03,2021-12-02?= =?UTF-8?Q?=5F01_signatures=3D0?= X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=446 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1030 malwarescore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2202240000 definitions=main-2205090083 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=17.57.156.8; envelope-from=ecbrown@ericcbrown.com; helo=ci74p00im-qukt09081901.me.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 May 2022 11:52:52 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:289536 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> The biblical references for the Parashat HaShavua and its Haftorah are >> definitely religious in nature. > > And the Hebrew calendar itself isn't? Where do we draw the line? > > The proposal was NOT to cite those texts in Emacs, the proposal was > just to _name_ them. Now, please tell me what is the fundamental > difference between having the string "Bereishit" in Emacs and having > the string "Rosh HaShanah" or "Yom Kippur" in Emacs? Yom Kippur isn't > just a date, it has a very strong religious meaning, and without that > is just another day. Or what about "Tzom Gedaliah" -- isn't that a > 100% religious notion? > > From where I stand, naming or labeling dates is OK in Emacs's > calendar-related features; but _quoting_ religious texts related to > those dates is outside the scope of Emacs. A label or a name are just > references to a thing, they aren't the thing itself (mumbles the > immortal passage from Alice in Wonderland regarding the difference > between a thing, the name of a thing, the name of the name, etc...) I agree that many calendars have religious origin so it's not like Emacs could be totally devoid of anything even tangential to religion. The Hebrew calendar is pretty involved; there is a book called a Luach which is consulted for e.g. Bar Mitzvah planning. 1) The small point that these are the Parashot _and_ the Haftarot, so may affect the name of the Lisp form 2) The cited verses are not the same for all the denominations - Orthodox Judaism reads the whole Torah completely in one year, but other groups read it triennially so the proposed verses aren't right for many - Some years Parashot are combined, some years they aren't - Haftorot may be different for Ashkenazim and Sephardim - Inside Eretz Yisrael or in Diaspora due to two-day Chagim causing special readings and differences in length of Chol HaMoed. Rising to your challenge to draw the line: Perhaps just enough of the Hebrew calendar where it has effect on civil society's days off or what goes on in secular school. So, Rosh HaShanah, Yom Kippur, and the Shalosh Regalim are definitely days off in Israel. The Omer is counted from Pesach to Shavuos so I don't see any big controversy here. If you want to get into usefulness *for me*, the Fast days and Channukah/Purim could be listed. I am not aware of inter-denominational differences for those days. It would be "out there" to have the Omer counted but Purim omitted. :-)