From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: orzodk Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2024 14:17:12 -0700 Message-ID: References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19300"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Jeremy Bryant , justin@burkett.cc, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 01 22:18:08 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rVeRi-0004pF-Pq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2024 22:18:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVeR5-0001p1-6x; Thu, 01 Feb 2024 16:17:27 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVeR0-0001nn-Bf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2024 16:17:25 -0500 Original-Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.19]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rVeQy-0005VP-TL; Thu, 01 Feb 2024 16:17:22 -0500 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C093200AB0; Thu, 1 Feb 2024 16:17:15 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 01 Feb 2024 16:17:15 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date:from:from:in-reply-to :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject :subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1706822234; x=1706908634; bh=lWnxhdt7Jf cP8tCYTbjT4xjZ/iBk8vZBwZB5dc7fP24=; b=qxlDolnEFxPqi1Zy76GJaMGFnH tECNhtpJPweLBCXnRA3MNXAlYWWQyUs8473Xt+TUlbQC51dhRRuDc91bTPymkHnI 5LoRCPZPRz4py2xZu4DU92v/9M+zqWVkWHTPFZLrm3Vi270OVL2DYfrcgDMWGJA+ 6MUM4ta3Kcc46+h5yhYhUcEphMik20roPmZ+1zOF9k5dr+Xy+MDOZo/TsNjspM/D 5QzQWZOMCEtQv9IGMjDgntrXNulIkbExti/B49GrMdUGfEYdO4HSOrog7VDPQi+T IQhARIXefbEy+DMP8f4YgjDcZPEUprkDQb29BbBy+n9Va0FqpG2qj5mwYmfA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-type:content-type:date:date :feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:reply-to:subject:subject:to :to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s= fm3; t=1706822234; x=1706908634; bh=lWnxhdt7JfcP8tCYTbjT4xjZ/iBk 8vZBwZB5dc7fP24=; b=yb9V2+08vkDhoN1GYUrOqIwtUO8bkDxecdOmzo7t/SuT w1kclJ3HwXnhSPuO1okp3bEVJoK11IUkeDiCP7VU18LHE4hwRoVukfUvOZEHc7+/ dcyVOAzbu+51/gQHUcPTlcUkeyc0ngROBHIG8LJ7MB+UAe264oouW9qvpoq1QXqZ 5N2eLnyV8HkQbSgyTWB4CmyFlOSLNxK+kWHewisySgtOjQ7dYJEhdId8RLuaRIYo 68r54dr1H2++YO0KEUBGATuukef/HX/hpVsRdHoNtOlQfrlsibrl8debc+5AvJYb UteqVkw8qS0Xo3CNwhLxNoQPDtUUByxmI6Nhkrtvjg== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrfeduuddgudegvdcutefuodetggdotefrod ftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfgh necuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmd enucfjughrpefhvfevufgjfhffkfgfgggtsehttdertddtredtnecuhfhrohhmpehorhii ohgukhcuoehorhiiohgukhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrh hnpeektefgudeuvdfgheehleevhfeiudffhfevtefgffdvfeelveejvedukeffhfegkeen ucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehorhiioh gukhesfhgrshhtmhgrihhlrdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: ic149461b:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Thu, 1 Feb 2024 16:17:13 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 01 Feb 2024 09:35:42 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.19; envelope-from=orzodk@fastmail.com; helo=wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315719 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Jeremy Bryant >> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 23:23:29 +0000 >> >> A recent theme of discussion has been improving discoverability of Emacs >> features, and in a related way, 'better defaults'. >> >> Here is a suggestion - include which-key in core and potentially enable >> by for new users. > > How do we detect "new users"? As a new user, I ran through help-with-tutorial early on. Maybe adding a note or suggestion somewhere there is good enough.