From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Wiegley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: New maintainer Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:44:42 -0700 Organization: New Artisans LLC Message-ID: References: <560CCEBA.9080607@online.de> <874miapdhs.fsf@openmailbox.org> <8737xuuw2y.fsf@rabkins.net> <87lhbmkrle.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87si5r22qh.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <56103479.6090900@online.de> <87k2r31znz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1443905119 5390 80.91.229.3 (3 Oct 2015 20:45:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 20:45:19 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 03 22:45:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiTg8-00055e-R0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 22:45:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39956 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiTg7-00054F-TG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 16:45:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52391) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiTfn-00052M-Ty for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 16:44:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiTfi-0004Pq-V4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 16:44:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22e]:34411) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZiTfi-0004Pj-OU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 16:44:46 -0400 Original-Received: by padhy16 with SMTP id hy16so137562136pad.1 for ; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:44:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:date:organization:message-id :references:user-agent:mail-followup-to:mime-version:content-type; bh=trcZ6VV+zBWurNbmnWN4VPT+WZhRe3FFRA7z+5oFjFw=; b=TRfKYhE4WedEpAFKDSM7JZzHB0NhOmTaJXPQURUi5n8sMBc8DKeYG1qMOGuy+kCXXk j2NK5Igb5+rSleGk2/itW7R1z3rxK1eqwe99sK2r/8NAY4CgFoLGL75kfyLpd8MdVUXQ ASB1dBLGfvqXeylM+YKu2eY3mgq75iILCG41jtS9OHiIu3DcFPeDb49VZlTAvhhW9+gz hLls0AG91RHrpDQonH7owfcczO9X5yfLI+hEemMcRdi9bk1Oq2mk1eb6USmapisdpBwa 2iqg+RBx0oUv2iKgMnPeUFZTYlCIG3aOu6YovapEnJTjs5wPq0E23vXCO/AYIeVa1xbP LB5g== X-Received: by 10.68.94.165 with SMTP id dd5mr19962793pbb.59.1443905085887; Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Vulcan.local (76-234-68-79.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net. [76.234.68.79]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id li11sm19133832pab.43.2015.10.03.13.44.44 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 03 Oct 2015 13:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by Vulcan.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id AAF07F02AB5D; Sat, 3 Oct 2015 13:44:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87k2r31znz.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (David Kastrup's message of "Sat, 03 Oct 2015 22:10:24 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:190827 Archived-At: >>>>> David Kastrup writes: >>> Damning by implication is one thing; setting out to defame other >>> organizations in order to make one's own appear the standard of virtue is >>> something else entirely, > And not at all what I have been saying. Maybe not what you've been saying here, but what the FSF has been doing. The way RMS talks about Apple and other companies, using words like unethical, corrupted, evil; I can't get behind that sort of rhetoric. But I knew I had differences with RMS before this, so that's not changed. I also know that I love Emacs and want to help it remain my editor of choice for a long time to come. If I can serve Emacs independently, from RMS and his agenda, I'm happy to do so, whether it benefits the FSF's cause or not. What RMS may not know is that I respect his spirit, the intentions behind his actions, and the effect he has had on our world as a whole. Free software in general (if not "libre" software) is without a doubt more real today because of him, and I've directly benefited from those efforts, both personally and professionally. So the FSF always has some credit in my bank, so to speak. If GNU/Linux could be an awesome OS with awesome applications, I wouldn't use my OS X machine anymore. What bothers me are the socialistic aspects involved, the _way_ RMS demonizes other approaches to licensing (eerily similar to how socialism demonizes other political philosophies), and the way he talks about "freedom" -- while what is meant is specifically the freedom of the user/consumer, and not the freedom of the developer/producer. These are reasons I do not support his path as leading toward true liberty. I _do_ want to true liberty, and for all software to be as free as RMS could ever want to to be; I just don't believe in getting there this way. John