From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?Gerd_M=C3=B6llmann?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:07:59 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <8734xetjkk.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywhsrcf.fsf@yahoo.com> <87cywgx1z0.fsf@web.de> <83wmuowwp3.fsf@gnu.org> <8334xcwank.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24707"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, michael_heerdegen@web.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 19:09:05 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r1sPo-0006BX-QX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 19:09:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1sOt-0007Yf-PD; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:08:07 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1sOr-0007Xo-N7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:08:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ej1-x62f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::62f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r1sOp-0004s2-RE; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 13:08:05 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ej1-x62f.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-9c2a0725825so496109666b.2; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 10:08:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699726080; x=1700330880; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=BITY+tKIuR2BGtlDFP4BgQlxl2bKgtUW/WQwAGRppX0=; b=eP0jNxvRMp05oHKNGkFUrT1hWX6S4B/ISc8kCcMRwsgenyG+CcqEw73QtGMaXX8MaE 2GYdNBlkuFbgeAuTaXzKsjSiwUQGkBJ3UthSHse8ZBTQOyvEZhercq9OPsbdwpajARs+ p36ok/AWFApWdm5knjLp9NBnPWl/KokYeE+S6flgkSIp0XmmDEBtSPAKFeWrQIqbFVv9 SmOoGHmR7SSiJ4hJzEFdZvAgUPcx5fMd5buzQS3vsdlE/qCug9GN2H1pSqUIG8U3mk4e 1P8/wiTyXok6yuYN8c6mLx/2dkda4QE/VaZXJcM91m9VOS3Ah3gpAsSTvJv6+plS0bOq K4xA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699726080; x=1700330880; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=BITY+tKIuR2BGtlDFP4BgQlxl2bKgtUW/WQwAGRppX0=; b=kSBNLbcR4eUQIz2Mdzt+FIpoHfXhXabXV3KRXH72DWk6t90kp4jX0f25r6wMN1AMJB 1/xsN1bfkFwjzPmITuXLle209kV6e186CRW21ket8Ri1c3vf47EB0z+NdbeRo72svlJK 0JRKbyBIJ0rdKR+wmtLex+s5U0HgMX7A2uBZNoxONq+upr/VDj3ruAZzmHPzfsa/R5Hi bvA7HqbHjhgyEFtuUeAINg5wt90h8T1kyJy8k1ui+Je5rLUOxwWH+xsfmbhdqm9nSB3i oXMk+r9Cqj+getip09X/DqvoRVgQLFWVu+6sGOV2mkFAxVEoYsjRKao8AJERr8f+0PZ4 W2bw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwbHitxOcrIIYZMcO5LG7CiZAMPGToGr0TiIgfOftuX15Ar5A5H cY6sIRAK13//AZUAZ4RKcJxiqPJYFgk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IElMksucE4dI7pWFgO8CcSrho4QIW65ALnvFrWB3IJdIWBm/iRQkQ9Hcio1TdKOlsahu9DxbQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:710c:b0:9dd:7536:2b0 with SMTP id x12-20020a170906710c00b009dd753602b0mr1539902ejj.50.1699726080476; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 10:08:00 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from Pro.fritz.box (p4fe3a05f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [79.227.160.95]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g9-20020a1709063b0900b009cc1e8ed7c5sm1382268ejf.133.2023.11.11.10.07.59 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 11 Nov 2023 10:08:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8334xcwank.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2023 17:51:43 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::62f; envelope-from=gerd.moellmann@gmail.com; helo=mail-ej1-x62f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312596 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > It isn't like we as a project never made any mistakes, but there's no > reason to assume this decision is one of them until we have ample > evidence. Seq is 10 years in Emacs, its polymorphism is unused in the tree. Joao showed that it's slow. Dmitry mentioned that it is not a full replacement for what is in cl-lib. Po Lu mentioned the poor doc strings.