From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Paul W. Rankin" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improving aesthetics & readability of backquote Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 23:25:13 +1000 Message-ID: References: <20190520085241.GA5136@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="118309"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: mu4e 1.2.0; emacs 26.2 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 20 15:26:22 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hSiJ3-000UZh-F1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 May 2019 15:26:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35762 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSiJ2-0007tl-6A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:26:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSiIA-0007tg-EJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:25:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSiI9-0000IX-BI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:25:26 -0400 Original-Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.20]:56071) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hSiI8-0000Hf-I0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:25:25 -0400 Original-Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E85083BF; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:25:22 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 20 May 2019 09:25:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=paulwrankin.com; h=references:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm3; bh=yo/o+hTP24g0vw3aVpDeYfJDJH MfJIzOKDlgZFddGX0=; b=Uubrzn1QCmcEexdzanH/qGOaHjcc7Ef7DiQBB62Pvm 0eAZCpwAoRpapkJMrr6x4fbMhqoty3FBsZY7W+CPiHXOX9hI3cflehhDAA0lvaJv bo5BMW8wyP1V4vBM9KdIPGkWcAHTxDfgEbw8TqQTR1I4fSqaaX/dEql9Ja0UvLnY koyzQJvsNljmfb5k1+WCC9gTDScomzbcAJ8ZzcnZyxbtn1rxBIFhXThe4CcvjevE CvPondLsweCW1swf8otW6isBx9ggXDOzvRgWbvkLuIk29TwqxiNdVLvqb3l/q5ZB Jgxs51yypKCE7+dpEyNYKb08zHJxytzGderb9UwD2P3g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=yo/o+h TP24g0vw3aVpDeYfJDJHMfJIzOKDlgZFddGX0=; b=y0etxKielPQGap5Ycon160 A0hA9nKOr3955YB+yo3i1MhOchvbSlI9qcp52nHcI2/ipk6GG/1mJ6eg0Q8jJzfL rM4qG0VOiwD0MY5yUI0aGHnsbD7tS1GYZgRgH1WJ50Ht3XpfSNMq4jyMAhDH5IQR eW2tMYzbBkknlp8SvaFb6mfIM4IXeSg7fwR4i4RpolSTfYx6Jcw/NDVH8J35nwRk a5QzM+CZctSGi+0ZmFQb/3EYO9W0eH7PRsH17fgVgyef8Akve+fRIb/LgtmRcDtu tI2Olg/9iFIT3ulDRFSjJMqbGpuc1DtNW5xWvCmKIR0xG4hpzQFkEM91QgxN7i8w == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduuddruddtkedgieehucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpehffgfhvffujgffkfggtgesthdtre dttdertdenucfhrhhomhepfdfrrghulhcuhgdrucftrghnkhhinhdfuceohhgvlhhlohes phgruhhlfihrrghnkhhinhdrtghomheqnecuffhomhgrihhnpehprghulhifrhgrnhhkih hnrdgtohhmnecukfhppeduvddtrddvvddrudeigedrudeftdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghi lhhfrhhomhephhgvlhhlohesphgruhhlfihrrghnkhhinhdrtghomhenucevlhhushhtvg hrufhiiigvpedt X-ME-Proxy: Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [120.22.164.130]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id A1A3D103D7; Mon, 20 May 2019 09:25:19 -0400 (EDT) In-reply-to: <20190520085241.GA5136@ACM> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 64.147.123.20 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:236791 Archived-At: On Mon, May 20 2019, Alan Mackenzie wrote: >> Add to this the \` is just an alias for backquote, which >> doesn't >> imply any meaning except as relation to itself. Its meaning >> cannot >> be inferred through the code alone. > > Sorry, I can't make anything out of that paragraph. What > meaning? What > relation to what? Which code alone? The \` symbol is an alias to backquote, and the word "backquote" only describes the symbol, i.e. circular semantics. >> I suggest that we could introduce some aliases and augment the >> reader constucts a little to make them more aesthetically >> pleasing >> and more readable. > > I don't agree with you that (quote foo) is more readable than > 'foo. I > would find (quote foo) tiring to write, and (more importantly) > tiring to > read. I believe very early lisps were lacking the ' operator. > (quoteval foo) would be even worse for me. I'm using "readability" in the sense of reader comprehension, not eyestrain. >> If it remains unclear, my suggestion is not to supplant the >> original syntax; I position this suggestion in a similar vein >> as >> the rx library. > > But code has to be maintained, and everybody would have to know > the > meaning of these new aliases, and be practiced with them, to be > able to > maintain code using them. Hence the choice of clear, easily understandable aliases. > I'm afraid I'm against such changes. I'm proposing an addition, not changes. See the aforementioned rx library; its relationship to regular expression in Emacs Lisp should be instructive. -- https://www.paulwrankin.com