From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Installer for MS Windows Date: 24 Aug 2004 22:51:21 -0400 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <001401c478de$908a92d0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <1091508072.20683.201576204@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4111491A.4090601@runestig.com> <4111D8D4.1040506@runestig.com> <1091693906.8538.201741376@webmail.messagingengine.com> <001d01c47afa$c1f5f170$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <003e01c48946$a8ebfad0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <011201c48a06$469eb6e0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <016f01c48a10$f6081090$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> <001801c48a37$995d27f0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1093402313 5063 80.91.224.253 (25 Aug 2004 02:51:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 02:51:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs Devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 25 04:51:45 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Bznt3-0001iq-00 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 04:51:45 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Bznxa-0007m5-1X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:56:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BznxT-0007m0-Js for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:56:19 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.33) id 1BznxT-0007ln-0W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:56:19 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1BznxS-0007lk-Tt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:56:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [206.47.199.165] (helo=simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1Bznsg-0006JW-Lp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:51:22 -0400 Original-Received: from empanada.localhost ([67.71.35.111]) by simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20040825024937.OEVQ1960.simmts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@empanada.localhost>; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:49:37 -0400 Original-Received: by empanada.localhost (Postfix, from userid 502) id B685A2AE3C6; Tue, 24 Aug 2004 22:51:21 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: "Lennart Borgman" In-Reply-To: <001801c48a37$995d27f0$0200a8c0@sedrcw11488> Original-Lines: 48 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3.50 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:26469 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:26469 > I agree that the packaging and user-preferences basically should be > separated. But it is also important to make a more easy road to emacs for an > ms windows user. To turn on all these things above are options at the > installation (except for gnuserv and the printing, see below). There are also W32 users who've learned Emacs before and who e.g. don't want CUA-mode. I understand your desire, and I think the best way to do that is to have an installation option to install a "vanilla Emacs" or "Emacs with w32 tweaks". I think it's important to make it clear that it's not quite "plain vanilla Emacs" for reasons of bug-reporting and things like that. > I think that gnuserv always should be installed. Since I am only using ms > windows (I have never time to switch to Linux) I am not sure how it looks on > other platforms. I believe I read that gnuserv is included there (or > something similar). Is that correct? I think adding gnuserv is fine, since it replaces the missing emacsclient/emacsserver (of course, what should really happen is that we should get emacscliant/emacsserver working on w32 so you don't need to add gnuserv, but in the mean time it's a good workaround). [ I don't know enough about w32 printing to comment on your suggestion. ] >> let's say I start your Emacs and see "gee he turned on CUA-mode, that > sucks >> for me". What do I do? Normally, to turn CUA off, a user should do >> (CUA-mode -1) or you use custom. Your site-start.el or default.el changes >> should correctly react to either one of those things. > I turn on the options just as if the user had used "Options - Customize > Emacs" so I do not believe it is a problem. Huh? How do you do that? If you call custom-set-variables in site-start.el or default.el, it won't be the same as if you called it in .emacs because the user has no way to change those settings AFAIK. Have you tried it? Actually maybe it works from site-start.el? Have you also tried the case where the user uses (CUA-mode -1) instead of using customize? Note also that if you call custom-set-variables, if the user subsequently does a custom-save, it will put a duplicate of your custom-set-variables into her .emacs (because Emacs doesn't know that those settings were not originally made from .emacs). Incidentally, isn't this a case where a custom theme could advantageously be used? Stefan