From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Leo Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: random doesn't feel very random Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2012 07:04:02 +0800 Message-ID: References: <876288yh72.fsf@kanis.fr> <87wr0livd4.fsf@Rainer.invalid> <83k3wfqtyx.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1346454267 30280 80.91.229.3 (31 Aug 2012 23:04:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 23:04:27 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 01 01:04:29 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T7aGK-0000oQ-GR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 01:04:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39943 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7aGI-0005Nu-1q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:04:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:59956) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7aGF-0005N1-9X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:04:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7aGE-0003d4-8R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:04:23 -0400 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:39392) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T7aGE-0003cs-1W for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2012 19:04:22 -0400 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T7aGA-0000dK-So for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 01:04:18 +0200 Original-Received: from 123.114.32.69 ([123.114.32.69]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 01:04:18 +0200 Original-Received: from sdl.web by 123.114.32.69 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 01:04:18 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 11 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 123.114.32.69 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAACkAAAApAQAAAACAGz1bAAABKElEQVQYlWNg3NIt5FDPUPt7 4+X79Qyucz5/ugik+L2PBgKpyphaIK921q23QDnG0NBQoMr/vaWl9f8ZLL78uPv5PwN7RETfzXoG jhmFz27XM0RXmpuY/WfY+fv0Mc56BvFybfXA/wwL5t/wF61n2PU59axXPcOVzbmSW/8zrNt1benC /ww70hqUU/4zKCtrT9jwn8FhwynbufUMendE2aLqGRpdX9al1zM8eh17lKeeQcTMrdD5P8P3j/YT Q/8zXHSb7p1Qz/C4OM2JuZ7hgtI7K6AjqsMnf8j4z8C6xG1tw3+GqpqvsVn/GTzmpD9j/8/wP/oZ S/l/Bka+QO/g/wy15ueeFQL9N1O8mPU/g+umV3t1gdT0/1bTgHLqYVeXAlWKpMWt+w8Az82C9nHf X0cAAAAASUVORK5CYII= User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.2 (OS X 10.8.1) Cancel-Lock: sha1:mPSZ7klqFHd4nTpDT/uXNZtz+OI= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:152920 Archived-At: On 2012-08-31 23:06 +0800, Stefan Monnier wrote: > As for whether they're bugs or not: I tend to agree that they're bugs, > but since currently our PRNG is not automatically seeded, those packages > that need their `random' to vary (IOW basically every package that > uses random) have no other choice but to call (random t) explicitly at > various times. I have seen packages using the accidental return value of (random t) so the misuse of (random t) is indeed misuse. Leo