unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: "Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com>
Subject: Re: Info tutorial is out of date
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:48:11 +0000 (UTC)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <m1G2SWB-0004EqC@rattlesnake.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1G2I6T-0007sT-HM@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Richard Stallman on Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:40:57 -0400)

    ... the question is about beginners.  Isn't it clear that nearly
    all beginners use the mouse?

Yes, nowadays, nearly all beginners use the mouse.  But that is not
the question.  The questions are

  * based on their previous knowledge, will beginners (who are sighted
    and using their vision and their hands) understand the use of the
    mouse in a plain Emacs or will they expect to use the mouse in a
    different way?

    Presuming that beginners single click (double clicking fails) on
    `Help', they will see the `Emacs Tutorial' listed as the first
    option and may click on that line.  (You have to read the Emacs
    manual to learn about going to the Info help.  The Emacs manual is
    nine lines down the `Help' menu.)

    The only change to Tutorial, the Emacs manual, or the Info help
    that I would suggest is writing these two sentences at or near the
    beginning:

        For many actions, you can click on a topic with a mouse
        button.  This tutorial focuses on the more efficient key
        sequences.

  * based on their previous knowledge, will beginners unlearn
    inefficent habits and begin to use key sequences appropriately?

    I hope so.  But according to my experience and all I have read, it
    is harder for people to unlearn what they learned previously than
    to learn rightly the first time.  And when undertaking a change,
    we must work with what people already know.

    The one thing we should never do is encourage the wrong habits.

The two answers mean we should not teach inefficent habits and we
should recognize that most beginners will already know conventions for
use of the mice. (Indeed, some will have learned one set of
conventions so well they will call that set `intuitive'!)

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-07-17 12:48 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 114+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-07-15 14:44 Info tutorial is out of date Drew Adams
2006-07-15 15:04 ` David Kastrup
2006-07-15 17:07   ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16  6:25     ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-16 17:33       ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16 18:02         ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-17 16:06         ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-20 19:03       ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
2006-07-20 23:10         ` Miles Bader
2006-07-21  1:11           ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
2006-07-15 17:46 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-15 23:41   ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16  8:29     ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-16 17:33       ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16 17:52       ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-16 18:51         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-15 22:14 ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-15 22:56   ` martin rudalics
2006-07-15 23:41     ` Drew Adams
2006-07-15 23:41   ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16  0:26     ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16  6:23     ` David Kastrup
2006-07-16 17:33       ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16 17:49         ` David Kastrup
2006-07-20 19:03           ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
2006-07-16 18:42         ` Jay Belanger
2006-07-16 19:24           ` Lennart Borgman
2006-07-16 20:13             ` Jay Belanger
2006-07-16 20:28               ` Lennart Borgman
2006-07-20 19:03               ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
2006-07-20 19:35                 ` Jay Belanger
2006-07-16 22:16           ` Mathias Dahl
2006-07-17  3:09           ` Stefan Monnier
2006-07-17  3:54             ` Luc Teirlinck
2006-07-17  5:07               ` Luc Teirlinck
2006-07-17  5:54               ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-17 16:54                 ` Drew Adams
2006-07-17 19:06                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-17 23:01                     ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18  3:32                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-18  4:37                         ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18 19:42                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-18 22:19                             ` Drew Adams
2006-07-19  3:01                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-17 16:37               ` Drew Adams
2006-07-17 19:01                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-17 23:01                   ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18  3:34                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-18  4:37                       ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18 19:43                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-18 22:19                           ` Drew Adams
2006-07-19  3:02                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-18 13:37                 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-18  0:13               ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-18  4:40                 ` Luc Teirlinck
2006-07-18  5:03                   ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18 15:00                   ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-17  4:20             ` Luc Teirlinck
2006-07-18  2:03             ` Miles Bader
2006-07-18 14:24               ` Stefan Monnier
2006-07-19  3:18                 ` Miles Bader
2006-07-17 16:06           ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-17 16:37           ` Drew Adams
2006-07-17 17:03             ` Jay Belanger
2006-07-17 17:11               ` Drew Adams
2006-07-17 19:01                 ` Jay Belanger
2006-07-17 23:01                   ` Drew Adams
2006-07-17 13:21         ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-17 16:37           ` Drew Adams
2006-07-20 19:03             ` Slawomir Nowaczyk
2006-07-20 22:41             ` Richard Stallman
     [not found]       ` <87k66devap.fsf_-_@hans.local.net>
2006-07-16 20:28         ` Info tutorial is out of date; mouse usage David Kastrup
2006-07-16 21:13           ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16  9:08     ` Info tutorial is out of date Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-16 17:33       ` Drew Adams
2006-07-16 18:44         ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-16 22:28         ` Mathias Dahl
2006-07-16 23:35         ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-16 22:57           ` Mathias Dahl
2006-07-17  1:07           ` Drew Adams
2006-07-17  9:33             ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-17 12:49             ` Robert J. Chassell
2006-07-17  8:19           ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-18  2:29         ` Miles Bader
2006-07-18  4:37           ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18  7:03             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-18 15:00             ` "shortcut" Richard Stallman
2006-07-19  3:35             ` Info tutorial is out of date Miles Bader
2006-07-17  1:40       ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-17  2:16         ` Jay Belanger
2006-07-17  9:44         ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-17 12:25           ` Sascha Wilde
2006-07-17 14:37             ` Mathias Dahl
2006-07-17 14:41               ` Lennart Borgman
2006-07-17 16:37             ` Drew Adams
2006-07-17 18:57               ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-07-17 23:01                 ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18  9:38                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-18 15:28                     ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18 16:57                       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-18 17:39                         ` Drew Adams
2006-07-18 19:06                           ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-18 17:34                       ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2006-07-17 16:37           ` Drew Adams
2006-07-19  2:23           ` Brad Collins
2006-07-19  9:53             ` Alan Mackenzie
2006-07-19 14:38             ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-17 12:48         ` Robert J. Chassell [this message]
2006-07-18  0:12           ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-18 13:39             ` David Hansen
2006-07-16  2:16   ` Jorgen Schaefer
2006-07-16 17:30   ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-16  6:25 ` Richard Stallman
2006-07-16 17:33   ` Drew Adams

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=m1G2SWB-0004EqC@rattlesnake.com \
    --to=bob@rattlesnake.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).