From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes to Texinfo DTD Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 02:13:03 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200310280126.h9S1Q9N16202@f7.net> <20031028105102.GA7330@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> <20031030104238.GA11503@dirtyweb.penguinpowered.com> <87vfps2x9r.fsf@ID-87814.user.dfncis.de> <878ymfdsx9.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <8765heixvu.fsf@kanga.tapsellferrier.co.uk> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069381626 19235 80.91.224.253 (21 Nov 2003 02:27:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 02:27:06 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 21 03:27:02 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AN10f-0000tn-00 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 03:27:01 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AN10f-00059n-00 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2003 03:27:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AN1ri-0006QM-Uw for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:21:50 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AN1rN-0006Pj-Va for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:21:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AN1qr-0006H4-5o for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:21:29 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.114.245] (helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AN1kX-0003pD-Ix for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2003 22:14:26 -0500 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.115) Fri, 21 Nov 2003 02:13:03 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Oliver Scholz on Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:05:58 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18000 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18000 Oliver Scholz wrote It seems to me that we are talking about entirely different things. I wrote under the assumption that a small and lightweight standalone info reader that works on a console is necessary. Indeed, there are different issues. One is rendering Texinfo into a surface expression which a display program can handle as efficiently as Info. The second is providing such a display program, or several of them. If my understanding is correct, Nic Ferrier is proposing a standard for an XML format that is a moderate extension of the current XML format produced by makeinfo. Also, if I understand correctly, he thinks that the new XML format will enable existing browsers such as Mozilla to be as efficient as the current Info mode in Emacs. And, in addition, with the use of an appropriate CGI on the Web servers, people will be able to read Info documents over a slow connection as well as they can read Info on a local machine. As Karl Eichwalder said yelp, the GNOME help browser, works directly with XML files conforming to a DocBook subset - it starts a little bit slow, be warned. This is good news, since it means that not too much work will be needed to create a decent renderer for a surface expression of Texinfo. Put another way, Info is designed for a fast connection between the program doing the rendering and the file serving the Info file. But HTML is designed for a slow connection between the program doing the rendering and the Web server providing the HTML file. As far as I know, the current HTML produced by `makeinfo --html' permits search/navigation only within a single HTML `page' or file, not within a document spread over multiple files, as with Info. So you need to create HTML documents using the `--no-split' option, which means as a practical matter, that HTML works quickly only in the same circumstance as Info, namely that there be a fast connection between the program doing the rendering and the file server. The goal is to produce an XML output that not only overcomes the disadvantages of HTML and Info, but goes ahead of them. So, to return to Oliver's comment: ... I wrote under the assumption that a small and lightweight standalone info reader that works on a console is necessary. Yes, this is necessary, as one of the various display programs that the new XML could use. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com