From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: RMAIL, MIME-related bug Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200310121947.h9CJlhKH006102@oak.pohoyda.family> <874qy4vbg7.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <200310200418.NAA04336@etlken.m17n.org> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1066655089 4269 80.91.224.253 (20 Oct 2003 13:04:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:04:49 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 20 15:04:47 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ABZiJ-00055l-00 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:04:47 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1ABZiJ-0000c3-00 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:04:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ABZhy-0005eI-GQ for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:04:26 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ABZhk-0005dN-Qk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:04:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1ABZhD-0005RD-Gz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:04:10 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.114.245] (helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1ABZhA-0005NW-Jx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:03:37 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.115) Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:03:25 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: <200310200418.NAA04336@etlken.m17n.org> (message from Kenichi Handa on Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:18:56 +0900 (JST)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17261 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17261 Juri Linkov writes: > I see one solution to these problems - to export entire mbox to the > file system, i.e. to save MIME parts to separate files, .... > Note that this don't contradict the decision to store messages in mbox > in their undecoded form. .... It is useful to use the terms `deep representation' and `surface expressions' to distinguish between the various formats. Think of the mbox as the `deep representation' of the set of messages. Much of it is readable using `find-file-literally' as it should be. But various `surface expressions' make reading the file easier, and decode images or base64 encoded material as needed. `Surface expressions' can be cached -- that can be an option. And, of course, a particular `surface expression', such as a Babyl file format, can be a `deep representation' for further processing, such as one to show an image. In any event, a `surface expression' may be suited to audio, using Emacspeak, or suited to rmail, or gnus, or... This method is similar to Kenichi Handa's proposal, excepting that he speaks of a `view buffer', which is a good phrase but does not persuade programmers to think of the blind. (Emacspeak may well use a `view buffer' -- and not deal with images in it. The idea is to apply to mbox format the existing way in which people think about Texinfo, in which the `deep representation', the Texinfo source, has many `surface expressions', such as Info, DVI, HTML, PostScript, and plain text.) The `deep representation/surface expressions' way of thinking goes against traditional Emacs style: in that style, the `surface expression' of a buffer was very closely linked to its `deep representation'. The characters you saw on the screen represented the bytes in the file. It is vital to keep this ability. Just yesterday, I had to look at a mail file using `find-file-literally' to discover what was giving me trouble. But mostly, I do not use `find-file-literally' but look at the `surface expression' produced by rmail. Obviously, this `surface expression' is not hugely different from the mail file's `deep representation', but it is somewhat different. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com