From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changing the no-toolkit scrollbar thumb color. (minor issue) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:25:17 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87fzijz4th.fsf@raven.i.defaultvalue.org> <200309262123.h8QLNNi07638@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200309272155.h8RLttv09524@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200309281642.h8SGgxc11119@raven.dms.auburn.edu> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1064784679 9073 80.91.224.253 (28 Sep 2003 21:31:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:31:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 28 23:31:17 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3j8P-0000az-00 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:31:17 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A3j8P-000810-00 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 23:31:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A3j7p-0007VD-0y for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:30:41 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.22) id 1A3j78-0007UF-2L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:29:58 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.22) id 1A3j3K-0006LE-Rc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:26:03 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.114.245] (helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.22) id 1A3j2y-0006Gd-IE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Sep 2003 17:25:41 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:25:17 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: Luc Teirlinck In-reply-to: <200309281642.h8SGgxc11119@raven.dms.auburn.edu> (message from Luc Teirlinck on Sun, 28 Sep 2003 11:42:59 -0500 (CDT)) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:16734 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:16734 I wrote: But the problem is worse than inadaquate documentation. The current message from `customize-face' is *false*. The `customize-face' method tells you that it has changed the foreground and background faces of the scroll bars when it has not. Luc Teirlinck responded: I do not know exactly what you are referring to. Is it the "State" message, like: State: you have set this face, but not saved it for future sessions. Yes, this is what was said -- but the trough and slider colors did not change. Strictly speaking this is accurate and relevant even if it has no effect on the scroll bar. It does not say that you have successfully changed the colors of the scroll bar, it says that you have set the face. The message is misleading. Rather that say you have set this face, it should say you have set this face, but that may do nothing to what you see; from your point of view as a user, this does nothing. As you say Maybe the documentation string could be improved. Exactly right. At the moment, the documentation string comes across as false. It does not tell you what you see. - tell the user that `customize-face' fails with GTK and that the user must modify his or her ~/.emacs.d/gtkrc file. The work to be done to the ~/.emacs.d/gtkrc file needs to be described in a manner that a novice can understand. .... In as far as the second suggestion is concerned, I believe that this information should be conveyed in the documentation string, not through an error message. It *must* be in the error message for the action. Otherwise, people will think the customize feature is broken when it tells them misleading information. (And, in any case, many will not read the documentation that tells them that the error message will be wrong.) Basic face for the scroll bar colors under X. ^^^^^^^^ I am running under X, not under Fresno or any other windowing system. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com