From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Divergence in menu appearance between Emacs Info and standalone Info Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:46:04 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200306041404.h54E4SO30552@f7.net> <5x8ysg6p4r.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200306052323.h55NNr4B002965@rum.cs.yale.edu> <9003-Fri06Jun2003125021+0300-eliz@elta.co.il> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1055699153 17262 80.91.224.249 (15 Jun 2003 17:45:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:45:53 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 15 19:45:49 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19RbYT-0004Qj-00 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 19:44:37 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 19RbvU-0007wA-00 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 20:08:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19Rbam-00039F-7k for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:47:00 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19RbaO-0002t5-It for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:46:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.20) id 19Rba5-0002OD-TL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:46:19 -0400 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19RbZx-00021L-Bj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2003 13:46:09 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:46:04 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: (message from Karl Eichwalder on Sun, 15 Jun 2003 17:47:56 +0200) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:15114 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:15114 In lynx, press '=' and you will see what's up with the link .... That tells me the information, but as far as I know, no one has written a regular expression search tool that figures out whether the link is to another section within the same document, and if so, runs a search in it. In other words, I want to navigate via a regexp search through all and only those files that are part of the `same document'. Have I missed something? Does the Lynx `/' command do what I want? (I just tried it, and it does not seem to.) ... if you are interested in remote files, either make use of a search engine or install an http index tool like htdig .... That is the solution I use, and it is broken! That is the point. By default, you must either use a search engine or create one, like htdig. Perhaps it is possible to write a regexp search function that reads the LINK info and figures out from it whether the cross reference goes to a continuation of the same document or not. That would be great, if it is possible. (The task is beyond me.) Certainly, you can download all the pages for a site; that is done, for example, by `wget' with mirroring. That is fine for a small site devoted to one topic. My problem is that I cannot figure out how to avoid pages on a site that are not part of the document in question and which I do not want to download. Perhaps an initial scheme would be just to search within pages in subdirectories of the current page: Thus a search through `http://www.gnu.org/gnu/' would go through its sup-pages, which might mean downloading all 13 of them, over 210 kilobytes. But it would have to do this without doing what `wget -m' just tried to do, which is go to a page outside the `http://www.gnu.org/gnu/' directory, and also, to avoid downloading non-searchable files. If someone did this and it worked well, and the feature got incorporated into Galeon or other graphical Web browser as well as Lynx and Emacs W3 mode, then it might completely change the Web! People could navigate and read much more easily than they do now. Moreover, with working next, previous, and up bindings, HTML could become a competitor to Texinfo as a deep representation medium. It's simply impossible to store _all_ docs locally. No, it is not possible. But when you view a page using HTML, you download that page. The idea is to download the other pages in a book as needed (not all the pages on a site, because that could be too many), and to enable searches through them. Ideally, of course, you only download the page that your regular expression search found; but I cannot see how to ensure that Web sites provide the right tools -- after all, even now, not every one of them provides for an htdig binding or text entry box on every page. (Does htdig provide a mechanism for remote keybinding in some Web browsers? As far as I know, it doesn't for Emacs W3M mode, for Lynx, or for Galeon. But maybe I have missed something. Is there a Web browser or Emacs mode I can use such that when I visit the `http://www.gnu.org/gnu/' or `http://savannah.gnu.org/forum/' Web pages, I can type `C-s' or an equivalent and get an htdig search? It should be pretty obvious that you are better off than reading typewritten sheets when you can type a string into a form, as the built in Galeon find command requires, or as htdig requires, but that `M-x' (Info-search) is a generation ahead.) > I don't see how hiding node names could be a step in the wrong > direction. > > Because node names tell you where a file is located. This isn't always true. ... glancing at the node name does not tell me whether it's under /usr/share/info or /gnu/share/info ... You are right. That is the case for a default configuration. However, I have my mode line set to tell me the full path name of any info document -- to do automatically what you do by calling C-x C-f (or a similar command). (I cannot understand why so many people like the default configuration; to me it is as if they decided to be like horses who pull carriages and wear blinders over their eyes.) -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com