From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:23:34 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20030325193739.ZGIN3924.fep01-svc.swip.net@gaffa.gaia.swipnet.se> <3E8345E8.4090509@swipnet.se> <1048872463.17161.132.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1049134327.3326.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1049149486 24439 80.91.224.249 (31 Mar 2003 22:24:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:24:46 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 01 00:24:44 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1907hs-0006M3-00 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 00:24:44 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 1907iB-0001bn-00 for ; Tue, 01 Apr 2003 00:25:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907hf-0005m5-01 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:24:31 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907hF-0005fJ-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:24:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907h2-0005TC-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:23:54 -0500 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 1907gm-0005Ik-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Mar 2003 17:23:36 -0500 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Mon, 31 Mar 2003 22:23:34 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org In-reply-to: <1049134327.3326.74.camel@localhost.localdomain> (message from Owen Taylor on 31 Mar 2003 13:12:07 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:12778 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:12778 The scrollbar models a physical system where there is a knob slid along a trough. If in the physical system (a stereo component say), the knob popped out of the trough on the physical system, it would be a sign of shoddy workmanship. I think the same holds for the onscreen case. Ah ... This is the fundamental misconception. Yes, in a physical system, you would complain if the knob `popped out of the trough' or slid under the end of it. But displays in a computer are not restricted to strictly physical contstraints. In particular, in GNU Emacs, the scroll bar should show ... how the document is divided into three parts: the part above the screen, the part on the screen, and the part below the screen. It is both false and misleading to pretend that a thumb in an Emacs scroll bar is like a knob on a 1948 Zenith radio. The `thumb' is derived from the physical knob, but it is not the same; it is an improvement, just as GNU Emacs itself is an improvement over the mechanical typewriter on which I first learned to type. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com