From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: info invisible changes Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:28:49 -0500 (EST) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <200211011623.gA1GNAL03601@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xznsnvabl.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <200211061511.gA6FBfL02691@rum.cs.yale.edu> <5xfzu79jxp.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> <5xbs4v9hq5.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1037201232 21563 80.91.224.249 (13 Nov 2002 15:27:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 15:27:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzCQ-00046I-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:13:02 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18BzON-00066k-00 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2002 16:25:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bg6a-0006fV-00; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:49:44 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18Bes6-0008Lh-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:30:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 18Bes3-0008LT-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:30:41 -0500 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=localhost) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 18Bes1-0008IT-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:30:38 -0500 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Tue, 12 Nov 2002 12:28:49 -0500 (EST) Original-To: storm@cua.dk In-reply-to: <5xbs4v9hq5.fsf@kfs2.cua.dk> (storm@cua.dk) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:9357 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:9357 BTW, I was asked to implement image support in Info mode. Has anyone done some thoughts on how that should work .... As a first step, please display the images in the Info file in the places corresponding to their locations in the Texinfo source, rather than in some other place. W3 mode, for example, puts images from the beginning of an HTML file at the end of the buffer, and vice-versa; and it drops some images. Also, when you implement images, please consider additions that may be made later: * An option to present the alternative text rather than the image so that the blind can listen to it. (By blind, I mean people who listen to Info as they drive a car, the `situationally blind', as well as the permanently blind). Note that Emacspeak works well and no longer requires special text-to-speech hardware. I run Emacspeak on this computer on which I am writing this using its built-in audio device and free software (the Debian `flite', `eflite', and `emacspeak' packages). The alternative text will come from the Texinfo source. Such text is already an optional argument to the @image command. * The caption text and figure reference for the image. The TeX for this could be taken from the botex.tex sources from 1985, since that (print-only) predecessor to Texinfo possessed images with captions and cross references to them. But makeinfo and Info will need new code to handle these features, and the @image command will need additional options to hold them. * An option to put a user-inspired border around images, with a local variable, so you can specify it on a per-info file basis. Many images are plain and look terrible if shown flat against whatever background your instance of Emacs is using. (For example, my current background is "DodgerBlue4"; to look good, most images need to be set off from that background a little by `picture frames' or borders.) * An option to load a background as you might for HTML. Although people have complained heavily about Web pages that are unreadable because of their backgrounds, some backgrounds do nicely and should become a part of Emacs. For examples, look at my Web site http://www.teak.cc [note the .cc extension] and at my neice's Web site http://www.goldenhillfarm.com in a Web browser, such as galeon, that shows backgrounds. In any event, I presume that Texinfo will eventually support backgrounds for its HTML output; Info might as well be ready to do the same. * An option to increase or decrease the size of the image. Different instances of Emacs use different resolution screens. On a high resolution screen, for example, it is hard to read a font that is big enough on a low resolution screen. It is the same with images. An image that looks great on a generic personal computer screen looks too small on a high resolution personal computer screen. Obviously, Info is not bothered by the font size problem, since that issue is already solved; but will suffer an image size problem. -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc bob@rattlesnake.com