From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [LONG] Some thougths and a patch for the search menu-bar functions Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:36:29 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20020910084203.80798.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1031657946 4613 127.0.0.1 (10 Sep 2002 11:39:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:39:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17ojMG-0001CC-00 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:39:04 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17ojwe-0000pB-00 for ; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:16:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17ojMI-0004Fa-00; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:39:06 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17ojJq-00042n-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:36:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17ojJo-000419-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:36:34 -0400 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=localhost) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17ojJn-0003zH-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 10 Sep 2002 07:36:31 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Tue, 10 Sep 2002 11:36:29 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: damien_terrier@yahoo.com In-reply-to: <20020910084203.80798.qmail@web11508.mail.yahoo.com> (message from Damien Terrier on Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:42:03 -0700 (PDT)) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:7799 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7799 More documentation is great, especially for people who start knowing little. However, there is a conceptual hole near the beginning of what you say First I changed "Incremental Search" to "Interactive Search" (in the display only). It won't change anything to the long Emacs' user but maybe the meaning of "Interactive" will have more sense than "Incremental" to the new user. This change is a mistake! "Incremental Search" is accurate and a notion to learn! Worse, you cannot distinguish among commands with the word interactive; all are interactive, including "Non-incremental Search". Incremental vrs non-incremental is a major user interface issue. Even after all these years, incremental search still provides the most comfortable human interface for navigation. The user does *not* have to think up a useful string length ahead of time. He or she simply starts typing the string or regexp, until point lands on the desired text. The user types only as much as necessary. Because the cursor moves as he or she types, the user does not have that terrible sense of `waiting'. Put in more high-faluting language, with an incremental search, the man-machine combination makes use of the most efficient, shortest search string for the context, since the combined partners of this association do only what is needed, and nothing more. Perhaps you could add the phrase "Interactive' to "Incremental Search" to create the explanatory phrase "Interactive Incremental Search". That may be all right, although on second thoughts, I wonder why bother, since all menu and keyboard commands are interactive. Put another way, what is different about `C-s' and `M-x grep'? Both are interactive commands, but only one of them is incremental. "Non-incremental Search", `C-s STRING ', is also Interactive. Interactivity is not a distinguishing feature. v In the source, I kept "incremental" and "isearch", it's only for the display that it's called "Interactive". Maybe the manual would have to change but a sentence like "For historical reasons, 'Incrementenal Search', was used before 'Interactive Search'. The old term is used in the manual. But it's really the same thing.". Or "Incremental" could stay. Anyway, it's not very long to change. I also renamed the old "Search" to "Non Interactive Search" because this way a new user understand why there are two search functions in Emacs and what are their real difference. -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com bob@gnu.org Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com Free Software Foundation http://www.gnu.org GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8