From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [CVS] f7, f8 bound.. Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:30:30 +0000 (UTC) Sender: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <87ofbji88u.fsf@emacswiki.org> <200209021705.g82H50d07442@rum.cs.yale.edu> <200209022324.g82NOoO08761@rum.cs.yale.edu> <20020903130247.GA6318@gnu.org> <20020903173120.GA29981@gnu.org> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1031153423 1555 127.0.0.1 (4 Sep 2002 15:30:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:30:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: schwab@suse.de, miles@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17mc6m-0000Oq-00 for ; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 17:30:20 +0200 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 17mcg2-0002MV-00 for ; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 18:06:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17mc8N-0003FB-00; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 11:31:59 -0400 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17mc7K-0003CI-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 11:30:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10) id 17mc7H-0003Bt-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 11:30:53 -0400 Original-Received: from megalith.rattlesnake.com ([140.186.114.245] helo=localhost) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10) id 17mc7A-0003Ao-00; Wed, 04 Sep 2002 11:30:45 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.114) Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:30:30 +0000 (UTC) Original-To: abraham@dina.kvl.dk In-Reply-To: (message from Per Abrahamsen on Wed, 04 Sep 2002 12:31:24 +0200) Errors-To: emacs-devel-admin@gnu.org X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:7469 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7469 > Please, arrange that customize and everything else work with just > *one* variable. Not two. Otherwise, you will make maintenance much > harder. Thank you. I believe maintenance will be much harder with one variable that tries to do everything, rather than two variables with clearly identified purposes. I wrote badly. I meant to say, please do not create two different systems to do the same thing. ... what is saved to the .emacs file will look nothing like what you would write by hand. You can still edit it, though. Please use nice `pretty printing' for expressions. Even if they are edited only by some people, they certainly should be easy to study. (Incidentally, my .emacs file actually contains the statement: ;; custom-set-variables was added by Custom -- don't edit or cut/paste it! which is entirely contrary to the principles of freedom: it says do not modify, do not share! What a bug! If you work on this, please fix this bug.) We don't need the extra non-keymap variable, Alex code use a symbol property instead, which should work just as well. Only customize have an interest in that value, so there is no problem hiding it that way. You confuse me: Suppose I set something with a setq and then, either earlier or later in my .emacs file, a customize statement sets a symbol property that has the same effect as my setq -- this means I have to think both about binding variables and symbol properties. Why? What mental model is leading you to think that two different kinds of expression are a good idea? Or am I misunderstanding you. Or are you thinking that people who use Customize are too ignorant to ever want to share or learn about Emacs? Are you figuring that these people should be given a low grade, not for hackers, way to set values? Are you thinking that hackers will never want to use Customize, even for setting things for which they think Customize is useful? It makes more sense to me to write a backend to the Customize GUI that generates a readable .emacs file that people can study, modify, and share, if they wish. (This reminds me of the since removed program that converted keyboard macros into Emacs Lisp defuns, rather than as currently, creating fset expressions.) The goal for Customize should be to generate easy-to-understand Emacs Lisp expressions and pretty print them nicely (to fit within a 70 character wide display, or other fill-column value, in your .emacs file). -- Robert J. Chassell bob@rattlesnake.com bob@gnu.org Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com Free Software Foundation http://www.gnu.org GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8