From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: George Plymale II Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Loading a package applies automatically to future sessions? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:47:23 -0500 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1517507193 21010 195.159.176.226 (1 Feb 2018 17:46:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2018 17:46:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 01 18:46:28 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ehIwG-0004gW-DT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 18:46:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50866 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ehIyH-0007a9-GU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:48:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44951) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ehIxc-0007XH-IB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:47:45 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ehIxY-00023a-M6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:47:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]:33386) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ehIxY-00023C-GP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 12:47:40 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id u12-v6so686029ite.0 for ; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 09:47:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=orbitalimpact.com; s=google; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=N7ne2tdwY6lIEigqfHLahod5h9ImaFzywdaVb2N4ZIY=; b=QDfg+FUzs7QydJuEqjzxaXKPd0UFKibVUWiK5T8uvnvcnXW39u8dE2o7tAP7b8xaS6 XMPdf89OnvOZsYiACG5GbgypNNxwpy3vqUjAdmTk/AZxVtYF6WmHx35XsZSPjr7XC7xM ptQLdvMSNd2POwA4f00gR0+PIOMYzpwcKfNQA= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=N7ne2tdwY6lIEigqfHLahod5h9ImaFzywdaVb2N4ZIY=; b=AHNKr0LxrjcgGNVrk7kS9NlDgeAAk2TscRV/Vjwcdi1zSG7QdBV7UZCXwhEKVhXaxh tVcWg2EjrlIkBHgcfPEOHlQPw0NahTtIehvU2dvrkr739cQu540JH09qwnNHa4vhdQlq 1RXl6rj9EEA/bJBw4R836k3gJEbHhRhhI/4vcy6u/ZJTFtns2kzLj+FQp6WbzOow7E39 PP4qMd83dY7/sTFOuV2eB2rA6syVQFneXmVSCEwc1fbyAu1GA7dD0u7KCOyrWJ7VMJm5 dLlxWaJcNXrfPQLSEYYJW4Wp6tFbdc5PWmm2UGataDAwPse5lwuKqfJoaf0V4BYWiQaq izvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytdhqnsOYo+ad2VbJJExd3qVfvb7GpCJLE7R6yCeWkLKkgy73gG2 Mipqt8QDeeR1q7p6KrUPGzhFWfw6ee0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224m8WdveKFCx86BYhcw+0eeH6hCnIBWsNXPEQHkI5atKoRxzxoBYY4horkyPtUUVf9NxGHNSA== X-Received: by 10.36.198.197 with SMTP id j188mr27025066itg.76.1517507259493; Thu, 01 Feb 2018 09:47:39 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from lehi.dev.orbitalimpact.com (ip-108-240-239-173.midwest.us.northamericancoax.com. [173.239.240.108]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t188sm238215ita.23.2018.02.01.09.47.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 01 Feb 2018 09:47:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 01 Feb 2018 09:48:31 -0500) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:222357 Archived-At: > > Also, I am legally under-age to sign any such copyright waivers. > Since it's the second time this issue shows up, I finally asked the > copyright clerk at the FSF and he says that it works as follows: > If the person is under 18 years old their parent needs to also sign > the contract. The biggest sticking point is that the assignment is > only valid up until that person's 18th birthday. > > So I couldn't do it even if I wanted to. > Apparently you could, but it's kind of a pain, indeed. Yes, that is certainly a pain to say the least. In some cases it makes contribution an impossibility. > I also find it fruitless/useless/annoying, but for having tried to fight > it, I know that it's just as fruitless trying to change Richard's mind > about it. > And I find it very hard to imagine how signing such paperwork for one's > Emacs code could harm one, so I sometimes get stuck this way between > Richard who stubbornly wants copyright paperwork and the contributor who > stubbornly refuses to sign it. > Both positions are only "a matter of principle" and are fruitless. I sympathize with your difficulties in this regard. Honestly, I wouldn't have much of a problem contributing code which would be licensed under the GPL if the paperwork were not involved. I still think the GPL is too problematic and restrictive, but to each his own. This paperwork is really just over-the-top and it's not right to force someone to give you the rights to their code while in the same breath talking about freedom. This kind of stuff doesn't encourage any openness or "hacker culture." It just makes people shy away from the project. I guess all of that is a matter of principle on my part, but aside from that I also do not want to encourage the FSF's continuation of this policy by signing the papers (which I still cannot anyway). Anyhow, happy hacking to you as well. I'd rather get back on the topic of your patch now that we've gotten this issue out of the way. Do you need any more feedback or assistance in solving the bugs that I mentioned? Thanks, - George Plymale II