From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Howard Melman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Convert some files from outline-mode to org-mode Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:19:32 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87zhaxi70f.fsf@yahoo.com> <4D145B75-0C23-4371-A388-747BB9E42327@traduction-libre.org> <20200429175201.GC4002@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="14749"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.3 (darwin) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:aBVCEsBEN5cIv6K+drIfKdDlpAw= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 29 21:21:36 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsH2-0003kO-1E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:21:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55188 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsH1-0000o9-3X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:21:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44652) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsGQ-0000GZ-N4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:21:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsFD-00041P-D8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:20:58 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([159.69.161.202]:53326) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsFD-0003xy-0S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 15:19:43 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jTsFA-0001lZ-Sz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 29 Apr 2020 21:19:40 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=159.69.161.202; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/29 15:19:41 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 159.69.161.202 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248180 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: > Hellow, Howard. > > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 23:27:39 -0400, Howard Melman wrote: >> (with-eval-after-load "outline" >> (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "C-") 'org-cycle) >> (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "S-") 'org-global-cycle) >> (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-") 'outline-demote) >> (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-") 'outline-promote) >> (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-") 'outline-move-subtree-up) >> (define-key outline-minor-mode-map (kbd "M-") 'outline-move-subtree-down) >> ) > > I disagree that these bindings are suitable for general use. > > For a start, most of them only exist in GUI frames, not TTYs. M-, > etc. certainly don't (unless the keyboard has been specially enhanced, > as mine has). > > Also, all these keys are "repeatable", i.e. you can let them run on > auto-repeat. Such keys are scarce and valuable, and shouldn't be > "squandered" on commands that don't need them. I suggest that the likes > of outline-demote don't need such bindings. > > Also[2], the arrow keys, with modifiers, are highly likely to be in use > by many users for things connected with movement, and defining them like > this in outline-mode will inconvenience all of them. For example, I've > got M- and M- bound to commands to scroll the other window a > single line. I don't want to lose these, even in outline-mode. Fair points, but I'll note these are bindings that org currently uses (maybe not C-tab, I think org just uses tab). The cycle commands are a bigger win then the others because they save the user from having to remember several outline bindings. I think org has shown having such commands on the arrow keys with some modifers is very popular and perhaps outline could borrow from it. And of course any user is free to override them. -- Howard