From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Howard Melman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an improved `help-for-help' Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 13:56:41 -0400 Message-ID: References: <838s7hxqkr.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28987"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (darwin) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:XwSFpLecqPBtzf7Va7i2xSffB7Y= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 07 19:58:31 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lUCRi-0007RM-F2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:58:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59376 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUCRh-00009E-D5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 13:58:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49360) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUCQ7-000634-QM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 13:56:51 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:48156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lUCQ6-0006iI-7e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 13:56:51 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lUCQ4-0005FW-3f for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Apr 2021 19:56:48 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 5 X-Spam_score: 0.5 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.5 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267550 Archived-At: Stefan Kangas writes: > Stefan Kangas writes: I had missed this and it looks great. I have a few small comments. > Getting Help > > m Help for current minor and major modes and their commands Why not "Show help for" like the others? Also I'd say "major and minor" since it shows the major mode first. > b Show all key bindings > k Show help for key > c Show help for key briefly > w Show which key runs a given command > > a Search for commands (see also M-x apropos) > d Search documentation of functions, variables, and other items In other places you use the word "help" instead of "documentation". I agree "Search documentation" reads better than "Search help" but by using a different word it suggests to me that it searches differen text than what is shown by other help commands. Maybe "Seach help text" would be better? > f Show help for function > o Show help for function or variable I would move this one either above f or below v. It seem odd to me be to placed between them. > v Show help for variable > > Info Manuals > > r Show Emacs manual > F Show Emacs manual section for command > K Show Emacs manual section for command bound to key > i Show all included manuals I feel like the word info should be here, as that's the mnemonic (not "included"). > R Show given manual Is this a new function in Emacs 28? I don't see it in Emacs 27. For w above you say "a given command" maybe these two should match? > S Find symbol in Info manual for current programming language With the construction used above for F and K this would read: "Show current programming language manual section for symbol" If that's too long, perhaps those commands should use this construction with "Find..." > > Misc Help > > p Search for packages matching topic > P Describe Emacs Lisp package > e Show recent messages I'd like to see word the "echo" in here as the mnemonic. Perhaps "Show recent messages from the echo area" or "Show recently echoed messages" > g Show information about the GNU project > l Show last 300 input keystrokes (lossage) > s Show current syntax table > . Show local help at point > t Start the Emacs tutorial I understand that the tuturial is probably the least used command here, but I'll make the case that for a new user, the ones most likely to use C-h C-h, it's perhaps the most important one. I'd put it first in this section. > > Help Files > > C-a About Emacs > C-c Emacs copying permission (GNU General Public License) > C-d Debugging GNU Emacs The "GNU" seems unnecessary here, particularly compared to the other lines. > C-e External packages > C-f Emacs FAQ > C-m Order printed Emacs manuals > C-n News of recent Emacs changes > C-o Emacs ordering and distribution information > C-p Known Emacs problems > C-t Emacs TODO > C-w Information on absence of warranty for GNU Emacs > > Language Help > > C Describe coding system > I Describe input method > L Describe language environment > h Display the HELLO file illustrating various scripts > > -- Howard