From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tom Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and =?utf-8?b?d2h5CWluZm8JbXVzdA==?= die Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:01:06 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvc8kdsp.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419192109 15037 80.91.229.3 (21 Dec 2014 20:01:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:01:49 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 21 21:01:43 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2mhD-0000kD-IG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:01:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38185 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2mhD-0005DP-3D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:01:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40553) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2mgu-0005D0-Gc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:01:30 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2mgo-0005Rj-Jf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:01:24 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:32899) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2mgo-0005RP-Cx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:01:18 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2mgn-0000QH-1l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:01:17 +0100 Original-Received: from 195-38-110-172.pool.digikabel.hu ([195.38.110.172]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:01:17 +0100 Original-Received: from adatgyujto by 195-38-110-172.pool.digikabel.hu with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 21:01:17 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 41 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/) X-Loom-IP: 195.38.110.172 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:34.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/34.0) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180440 Archived-At: Mike Gerwitz gnu.org> writes: > > I consider adding JS to be more of a kluge than a solution; while this > does add additional functionality, it is specific to the page (not > handled by the web browser), non-standard, and wouldn't function in a > nice text-based browser. GUI Emacs has features which don't work on a terminal, yet they are nice to have. In a text browser it works as a simple HTML page, while a modern GUI browser can provide the interactive feature to the user. > Even as a web developer, I rarely enable JavaScript and consider a web > page to be broken if it requires it. In this case, the page would > function just fine without (and would therefore not be broken), but the > experience would differ. > > If the goal (according to ESR) is to appeal to the younger crowd, this > wouldn't do that. The younger crowd expects interactive web pages (e.g. jumping to manual nodes with completion), because they are used to interactive features on other pages (Gmail, facebook, etc.) And they expect it to work out of the box, because they know the browser can do it. E.g. they won't install an extension just to browse Emacs manual nodes interactively when they know the browser can do the same natively on other pages. > I see no problem with our current format, which can generate decent HTML > (though it could be improved upon), and which can be cached by the > browser for instant page views to already-visited nodes. Users who do > care about keyboard-based navigation can use either access keys[0], or > install an extension (I use Vimperator). I would not want a web page to > dictate that for me. G as hotkey was chosen to replicate the emacs info experience. An emacs user would naturally want to use the same keys as in info to browse the HTML documentation. Why use something else when you can use the same keys?