From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs-devel Digest, Vol 44, Issue 176 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:36:07 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071022133607.GD19334@thyrsus.com> References: <20071021192054.AD7BE7393E@grelber.thyrsus.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1193060117 18865 80.91.229.12 (22 Oct 2007 13:35:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:35:17 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 22 15:35:18 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IjxR7-0000ZD-8b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:35:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjxQz-0004iR-Cl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:35:09 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjxQx-0004iM-Q7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:35:07 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjxQw-0004i8-Fi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:35:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjxQw-0004i5-98 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:35:06 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IjxQv-0000jw-Ta for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:35:06 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 03D2B3807C; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 09:36:07 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071021192054.AD7BE7393E@grelber.thyrsus.com> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81452 Archived-At: emacs-devel-request@gnu.org : > What do yo think of my other suggestion, which is to drop the word > `fileset' in documentation where the reference is to a list, as in > `vc-svn-diff'? I don't think the mere plural 'files' effectively conveys the idea that these things are treated atomically as a group rather than sliced and diced in parallel as in old VC. Which is the reasonm I started using the term 'filset' to begin with. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs-devel Digest, Vol 44, Issue 176 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:45:43 +0900 Message-ID: <871wbn5ht4.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <20071021192054.AD7BE7393E@grelber.thyrsus.com> <20071022133607.GD19334@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1193066938 13393 80.91.229.12 (22 Oct 2007 15:28:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:28:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 22 17:28:59 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IjzCu-00024F-9J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:28:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzCm-0001AM-He for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:28:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzCh-00014i-Jy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:28:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzCf-0000zi-E5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:28:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzCf-0000z7-2j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:28:29 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp02.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.72]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IjyXN-0002G1-Ay; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:45:50 -0400 Original-Received: from 203-216-97-240.dsl.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.97.240] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp02.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1IjyXI-0007g7-V2; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:45:45 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3429C2F4B; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:45:43 +0900 (JST) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <20071022133607.GD19334@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Mon\, 22 Oct 2007 09\:36\:07 -0400") Original-Lines: 15 X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81459 Archived-At: "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > I don't think the mere plural 'files' effectively conveys the idea > that these things are treated atomically as a group rather than sliced > and diced in parallel as in old VC. Frankly, neither does the term "fileset". It suggests "set of files", and says nothing about how they are handled. The place to make that clear is in the documentation. -Miles -- Come now, if we were really planning to harm you, would we be waiting here, beside the path, in the very darkest part of the forest? From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs-devel Digest, Vol 44, Issue 176 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:45:46 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20071021192054.AD7BE7393E@grelber.thyrsus.com> <20071022133607.GD19334@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1193067977 17700 80.91.229.12 (22 Oct 2007 15:46:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:46:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 22 17:46:17 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IjzTe-0000vc-C2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:46:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzTW-0004Zq-IN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:45:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzTT-0004Zk-84 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:45:51 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzTR-0004Xy-S0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:45:50 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IjzTR-0004Xh-Ki for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:45:49 -0400 Original-Received: from h209-71-201-81.gtconnect.net ([209.71.201.81] helo=ceviche.home) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IjzTR-00015S-DX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:45:49 -0400 Original-Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id B0E6EB4A74; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 11:45:46 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20071022133607.GD19334@thyrsus.com> (Eric S. Raymond's message of "Mon\, 22 Oct 2007 09\:36\:07 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/23.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81465 Archived-At: > I don't think the mere plural 'files' effectively conveys the idea > that these things are treated atomically as a group rather than sliced > and diced in parallel as in old VC. This is a mere "quality of implementation" detail, so I don't think it has any importance in the manual and the docstrings. Stefan From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs-devel Digest, Vol 44, Issue 176 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:01:28 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: <20071022190128.GO24483@thyrsus.com> References: <20071021192054.AD7BE7393E@grelber.thyrsus.com> <20071022133607.GD19334@thyrsus.com> <871wbn5ht4.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1193079644 28925 80.91.229.12 (22 Oct 2007 19:00:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:00:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 22 21:00:42 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ik2Vu-00067p-6W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:00:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2Vm-0000Lx-9F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:00:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2Vi-0000Jz-Qf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:00:22 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2Vg-0000GW-HN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:00:21 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik2Vg-0000GG-95 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:00:20 -0400 Original-Received: from static-71-162-243-5.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ik2Vb-0005E6-Bs; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:00:15 -0400 Original-Received: by snark (Postfix, from userid 23) id 6B2B13807C; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <871wbn5ht4.fsf@catnip.gol.com> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.15+20070412 (2007-04-11) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81473 Archived-At: Miles Bader : > "Eric S. Raymond" writes: > > I don't think the mere plural 'files' effectively conveys the idea > > that these things are treated atomically as a group rather than sliced > > and diced in parallel as in old VC. > > Frankly, neither does the term "fileset". It suggests "set of files", and > says nothing about how they are handled. But at least it connotes a unit. > The place to make that clear is in the documentation. Which I think I have done in my most recent commit to files.texi. Unless someone else has *specific wordsmithing* which is an improvement on the language now in files.texi, I think this discussion has ceased to serve a useful purpose. -- Eric S. Raymond From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Robert J. Chassell" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: filesets Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:52:33 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: References: <20071021192054.AD7BE7393E@grelber.thyrsus.com> <20071022133607.GD19334@thyrsus.com> <871wbn5ht4.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <20071022190128.GO24483@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: bob@rattlesnake.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1193090035 914 80.91.229.12 (22 Oct 2007 21:53:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:53:55 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 22 23:53:53 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Ik5Dc-0007Zx-JQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:53:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik5DU-0007wR-Qo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:53:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik5CO-0007Rt-CS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:52:36 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik5CN-0007RJ-GZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:52:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ik5CN-0007RB-Bs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:52:35 -0400 Original-Received: from cpe-69-204-164-144.nycap.res.rr.com ([69.204.164.144] helo=rattlesnake.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Ik5CN-00045C-3V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2007 17:52:35 -0400 Original-Received: by rattlesnake.com via sendmail from stdin id (Debian Smail3.2.0.115) Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:52:33 +0000 (UTC) In-reply-to: <20071022190128.GO24483@thyrsus.com> (esr@thyrsus.com) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81487 Archived-At: Unless someone else has *specific wordsmithing* ... Very few people have time to think up *specific wordsmithing* so that statement comes across as bullying. Please use wording that attracts more help. Please consider changes as necessary for both the function documentation (which may apply to a bunch of VC related libraries) and to the Info documention. (Then changes may be -- but I am not sure -- that the word `fileset' is not worth reusing with a different meaning in a different context and that the word `list', meaning a Lisp list, an atomic item, needs explanation, if that word be used instead the word `fileset'.) -- Robert J. Chassell GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 bob@rattlesnake.com bob@gnu.org http://www.rattlesnake.com http://www.teak.cc