From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: breadcrumbs for Info . . . . . . Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:16:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <009d01c8cb55$13d53e20$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87fxrkltma.fsf@jurta.org> <00ae01c8cb71$c26aeef0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <873ankqou6.fsf@jurta.org> <00d901c8cbc9$7df36fb0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <87tzfzk331.fsf@jurta.org> <00a501c8ccdd$93328720$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <002401c8cd1f$98631650$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <004a01c8cd67$b2f7a9c0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00b101c8cda2$63175a50$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> <00b601c8ce03$6c7db2e0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1213460234 8454 80.91.229.12 (14 Jun 2008 16:17:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 16:17:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Juri Linkov' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 14 18:17:57 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1K7YRs-0007WK-Mk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 18:17:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41886 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7YR4-0006SJ-Lh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:17:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7YQP-000692-72 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:16:21 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1K7YQO-00068X-IZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51956 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1K7YQO-00068R-Fy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.pppoe.ca ([206.248.154.182]:1112 helo=ironport2-out.teksavvy.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1K7YQO-0002jA-67 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:16:20 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhcFAGWLU0jO+KWv/2dsb2JhbACBW6sW X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.27,644,1204520400"; d="scan'208";a="22520012" Original-Received: from smtp.pppoe.ca (HELO smtp.teksavvy.com) ([65.39.196.238]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP; 14 Jun 2008 12:16:19 -0400 Original-Received: from pastel.home ([206.248.165.175]) by smtp.teksavvy.com (Internet Mail Server v1.0) with ESMTP id UWE04619; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:16:19 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id 970578336; Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:16:18 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <00b601c8ce03$6c7db2e0$0200a8c0@us.oracle.com> (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 14 Jun 2008 02:45:47 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:99179 Archived-At: > BTW, your changes introduced a bug: > emacs -Q > load your info.el (from CVS) > C-h i > choose Emacs manual > T > Wrong type argument: stringp, toc Indeed, thanks. It broke info-apropos as well. Should both be fixed now. BTW, I agree with you that the `toc' should be a virtual node rather than a virtual manual. And the info-apropos should construct a node "(apropos)" rather than "(apropos)Top". > But I also think the breadcrumbs, when used at all, should be > complete - never elided. They should also be filled, so that (like the > Info body text) they stay within 72 chars without wrapping. I understand. The current default is a tradeoff: it provides all the info that was there before and it fits within 80 columns in my tests (i.e. it doesn't use up more screen real-estate than before). > I'd suggest therefore getting rid of the depth user option altogether. If you > feel you must keep it, then please make its default value 5, which includes > everything (the 4 possible section levels plus the top level). By default, at > least, no breadcrumb nodes should be elided. Not eliding breadcrumbs means that we would occasionally use up more screen real-estate than before. Some users may like it, others won't. The current choice seems safer. >> > . When using ellipsis, I suggest dropping first the current >> > node name and the file+top - precisely the parts you keep. >> >> I keep them precisely because they were there before. >> The number of nodes actually displayed depends on too many >> things: to be really precise, the docstring would need to be overly >> complex. > The question is what should be dropped when using ellipsis. The > current and top nodes are the least important parts to keep in the > breadcrumbs, for the reasons I gave. _If_ you drop anything, they > should be dropped. Maybe to you they are the least important pieces of info, but they're the only piece of info that was there before, this seems to indicate that there's a good chance they are *more* important. >> You misread the code. > It's possible. It's sure. And you misread my above sentence by "the" I meant "my": I've never removed the Info-fontify-maximum-menu-size binding, I've just moved it elsewhere. Stefan