From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:36:22 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83bnxuzyl4.fsf@gnu.org> <871tyqes5q.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87a9ddg7o8.fsf@engster.org> <87d2i9ee8t.fsf@engster.org> <874n3ke1qn.fsf@engster.org> <87sir336qn.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <20140301215057.GA19461@thyrsus.com> <87fvn1y0vx.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fvn0senq.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8761nusb90.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1394631402 11227 80.91.229.3 (12 Mar 2014 13:36:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:36:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: stephen@xemacs.org, dak@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 12 14:36:50 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WNjKz-0004XV-7G for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:36:49 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60651 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNjKy-0001JL-Ot for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:36:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59678) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNjKo-0001It-RW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:36:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNjKh-0008DQ-Gm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:36:38 -0400 Original-Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.181]:51802) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WNjKZ-0008C8-Tq; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:36:23 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av4EABK/CFFMCppy/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDpHqBXoMT X-IPAS-Result: Av4EABK/CFFMCppy/2dsb2JhbABEvw4Xc4IeAQEEAVYjBQsLDiYSFBgNJIgeBsEtkQoDpHqBXoMT X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.84,565,1355115600"; d="scan'208";a="51453078" Original-Received: from 76-10-154-114.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO pastel.home) ([76.10.154.114]) by ironport2-out.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA; 12 Mar 2014 09:36:22 -0400 Original-Received: by pastel.home (Postfix, from userid 20848) id A4F506057F; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:36:22 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 11 Mar 2014 20:12:44 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 206.248.154.181 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:170292 Archived-At: > It is more or less the same loss. The case I'm concerned about is that > it become normal to use GCC with proprietary add-ons. My understanding is that people are satisfied with the current GCC plugin licensing. What is at stake here is the development of a stable output that gives enough info for things like refactoring. IOW the issue is not disallowing proprietary add-ons (we're all pretty happy to disallow them, IIUC), but making it impossible to use GCC within a proprietary product (e.g. a proprietary IDE). > Nowadays GCC does allow plug-ins -- we came up with a safe way to do > it (or at least I hope it's safe). The issue now is to convince > people to work on improvements to GCC. Maybe that's the issue for GCC, but for Emacs the issue is to get detailed info out of GCC, which is a different problem. My understanding is that you're opposed to GCC providing this useful info because that info would need to be complete enough to be usable as input to a proprietary compiler backend. Stefan