From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CUA-theme? Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:33:29 -0400 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34925"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniele Nicolodi Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 17 15:36:50 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kIu5i-0008su-17 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:36:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48238 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIu5X-0000MQ-BM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:36:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56198) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIu2b-0006Be-Bg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:33:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:7433) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kIu2Y-00057B-TY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:33:36 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8423A80CA0; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:33:33 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4DDCC8009B; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:33:31 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1600349611; bh=vt9MvOhIF6buekJpoFhkZMd65UIMGAmnpbFN1S1mVwc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=LgjvExWodmyp7P/MjwJU5CDq43Y/FjRA3onXGlE0RjsM6pSpxq4AhU1JmwX6eLWkj cLiDTHEoNly8CXoPDpWYOy6O81icUePB7JbT8mQajVKEyt9d94t/D/tzWgYGTWxeFp IXPEDFT6K72a3SylvyXHAvBxlaTZ61HnulsaqNpVIO5J42LIQ4VTqFjvvG3U75wfXV yFh3Qr883QTWYxOZOU8DITPldeZYp2izY0lqzxELD4qYqXRzGGul0dgn9lIK9Hc19a /HQRv0xUoYK68Q51Z3DrUWxUXjAdSyItVdIb51DfsnN+uzGTuUUELindB0j+0Ga9Sv jTHLWOpE/aRDQ== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F29D9120225; Thu, 17 Sep 2020 09:33:30 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Daniele Nicolodi's message of "Thu, 17 Sep 2020 13:08:50 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/17 09:33:33 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:255993 Archived-At: Daniele Nicolodi [2020-09-17 13:08:50] wrote: > On 16/09/2020 15:29, Stefan Monnier wrote: >> Would it make sense to define a new custom-theme (or minor-mode until >> custom-theme can handle that) which makes Emacs's behavior match the >> "standard" in most other applications? > > If I understand correctly the recent discussions, one of the main goals > is to make Emacs more accessible to newcomers. In this respect, are we > sure that using the "theme" concept, associated (outside the Emacs > world) with customizing how applications looks, to configure the > application behavior is a good idea? I'm not interested in the user-facing part where we decide what name to show to the users (where we likely won't give it a name at all, instead we'll just have a button saying "follow non-Emacs standards"). I'm talking about the underlying technique. It's easy to take a theme and then add further changes on top of it (some of which may "undo" changes made by the theme) and it is supposed to work reliably. Whereas enabling/disabling a minor mode which enables `delete-selection-mode` (for example) will often misbehave in corner cases when mixed in with enabling/disabling `delete-selection-mode`. Stefan