From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opening Up More Keymaps Re: Standardizing more key bindings? Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:19:17 -0400 Message-ID: References: <24436.53239.437810.270641@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <24436.58187.698211.262192@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21743"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 30 23:20:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjWX-0005Zm-OP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 23:20:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52432 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjWW-0002zK-QO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:20:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43882) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjVT-0002VJ-CZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:19:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:27072) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kNjVQ-0001i5-Ef for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:19:22 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 36A224413B4; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id DE0624413AB; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:19:17 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1601500757; bh=Fu7QiMygz6oiAjxtd0LPRz6eBiXJWx4m0DrtRslXoJ0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=HWY4WGMT8LCtyPuxmBWXRuWOKeTYR+X9KZ9t6OFOkDcapoBulkz5xjN4/qxLJENG6 nij/akUm09sts9JHB2+3Q7aCHk4D3DTQcQpP4cXQSqYF1A3gyfP+rhNJbRymEBLrfV miBXrAi/nvoLZjzxbwahoZphwLa7PgM7X9Swry8kAlbdwjaPg+voICVoNivpyVUD9m N2046kiMmfkdLMMvOd/V9F99lseXCsQqRA4oqc4zid1yM2FaSkhWJLEO8pI7QKrtTk gZbw7JUihyuSLU4zA5HxxWMTC4XWKppPS495mVM0BdPbTHf3olG6FIkNAn7w/xnrNg 2g4/FfyDvvAsQ== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [45.72.232.131]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B82E91201D0; Wed, 30 Sep 2020 17:19:17 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: (Gregory Heytings's message of "Wed, 30 Sep 2020 21:13:08 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/30 11:51:22 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256806 Archived-At: >>> that's an interesting perspective. Am surprized that you feel tty users >>> would find C-z z significantly harder than just C-z as the key to >>> suspend Emacs. >> I assume tty users have "C-z to suspend" hardwired in their fingers and >> would be quite surprised if any application decides to use another binding >> for it. > That's correct, except if that application uses C-z C-z to > suspend. Repeating a key until it produces the expected effect is also > something tty users are used to do. For example repeating C-c until the > program aborts. Very good point, there are cases where `C-z` needs to be repeated (e.g. to suspend editing a commit message in "Zile launched by Git" ;-) I usually consider those as bugs, but it does make `C-z C-z` into a viable option. Obviously, not a good option if you want to bind `C-z` to `undo` but viable if you want to use `C-z` for a new keymap ;-) Stefan