Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

Just a thought. Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.

Any chance of that happening? Thoughts?

Thanks,
Payas

>>>> Hi Stefan, et al,
>>>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>>>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>>>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>>>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users
>>>> install and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and
>>>> in Nix (and having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging
>>>> work as well).  I use it every day, and there are no major known
>>>> bugs, so it seems like a good time to submit it.  I have plans for
>>>> further development as well, but they need not hold back publishing
>>>> on ELPA.
>>> Glad to see the package is ready!
>>>
>>>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
>
> Great, I've pushed the package specification to elpa.git.
>
>> Thanks,
>> Adam
>
>

--

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Philip Kaludercic]

Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>
> Just a thought. Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>
> Any chance of that happening? Thoughts?

I don't get to decide anything like that, but it seems unlikely
considering that Ement still has a number of dependencies that aren't
available in the core.

From what I see the package is larger than ever ERC -- probably by
necessity -- and I personally think it is questionable that Emacs has
two IRC clients bundled by default (the other one being rcirc).

> Thanks,
> Payas
>
>>>>> Hi Stefan, et al,
>>>>> I'd like to submit my Matrix client package, Ement.el, to GNU ELPA.
>>>>> https://github.com/alphapapa/ement.el
>>>>> It's been my plan to do so eventually, and over the past nearly two
>>>>> years of development, it's seen at least a few hundred users
>>>>> install and use it regularly.  It's also packaged in GNU Guix and
>>>>> in Nix (and having it in GNU ELPA will simplify their packaging
>>>>> work as well).  I use it every day, and there are no major known
>>>>> bugs, so it seems like a good time to submit it.  I have plans for
>>>>> further development as well, but they need not hold back publishing
>>>>> on ELPA.
>>>> Glad to see the package is ready!
>>>>
>>>>> Please see the attached patch to elpa-packages.
>>
>> Great, I've pushed the package specification to elpa.git.
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Adam
>>
>>
>
> --

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Just a thought. Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
>> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>>
>> Any chance of that happening? Thoughts?
>
> I don't get to decide anything like that, but it seems unlikely
> considering that Ement still has a number of dependencies that aren't
> available in the core.
>
> From what I see the package is larger than ever ERC -- probably by
> necessity --

Oh it is definitely by necessity. The Matrix protocol handles images,
referenced replies, videos just to name a few. Compared to IRC, it is
surely larger.

> and I personally think it is questionable that Emacs has
> two IRC clients bundled by default (the other one being rcirc).

Emacs also holds Tetris and there will probably be riots if that is ever
questioned :)

Jokes aside, Emacs has long been not-just-a-text-editor. Reading/sending
Emails has been supported since 80s. There is even a web browser
included (and it sees regular use in my Emacs mail client to render
shitty HTML emails).

Both IRC and now Matrix (as contemporary semi/real-time communication
mechanism) seem quite appropriate.

Dependencies argument is valid, but perhaps that is better discussed upon
by Adam and Emacs maintainers.

Thanks,
Payas

--

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Stefan Monnier]

Payas Relekar [2022-09-02 20:23:38] wrote:
> Just a thought.  Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
> Any chance of that happening?  Thoughts?

I think adding packages to core Emacs is usually a bad idea unless it's
a package contributing to the general infrastracture of ELisp (or if
it's a package that's important for some ELisp package that's already in
core).

I think the plan/intention is rather to move things out of core.
To make up for it, the intention is then to provide a new mechanism to
"bundle" some GNU ELPA packages into the "default" build of Emacs.


        Stefan

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> Payas Relekar [2022-09-02 20:23:38] wrote:
>> Just a thought.  Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
>> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>> Any chance of that happening?  Thoughts?
>
> I think adding packages to core Emacs is usually a bad idea unless it's
> a package contributing to the general infrastracture of ELisp (or if
> it's a package that's important for some ELisp package that's already in
> core).

Fair.

> I think the plan/intention is rather to move things out of core.
> To make up for it, the intention is then to provide a new mechanism to
> "bundle" some GNU ELPA packages into the "default" build of Emacs.

Well, assuming that happens, can Ement be considered for default
bundling?


Tangential, but I'm assuming you mean something in between current org/modus-themes
development model where upstream is periodically merged to core and
ELPA, but just to clarify, is that what you mean, or a built-in way to
generate custom Emacs 'distribution' of sorts, or something else?

Thank,
Payas

--

Re: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client)

[Payas Relekar]

Payas Relekar <relekarpayas@gmail.com> writes:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> Payas Relekar [2022-09-02 20:23:38] wrote:
>>> Just a thought.  Since we already have IRC client in the core, it will be
>>> nice to have a well-maintained Matrix client in core as well.
>>> Any chance of that happening?  Thoughts?
>>
>> I think adding packages to core Emacs is usually a bad idea unless it's
>> a package contributing to the general infrastracture of ELisp (or if
>> it's a package that's important for some ELisp package that's already in
>> core).
>
> Fair.
>
>> I think the plan/intention is rather to move things out of core.
>> To make up for it, the intention is then to provide a new mechanism to
>> "bundle" some GNU ELPA packages into the "default" build of Emacs.
>
> Well, assuming that happens, can Ement be considered for default
> bundling?

I realised this phrasing is bit presumptuous and not very answerable.

Please ignore if thats how it comes off :)

>
> Tangential, but I'm assuming you mean something in between current org/modus-themes
> development model where upstream is periodically merged to core and
> ELPA, but just to clarify, is that what you mean, or a built-in way to
> generate custom Emacs 'distribution' of sorts, or something else?

Thanks,
Payas

--

Bundling ELPA packages (was: [ELPA] New package: Ement (Matrix client))

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I think the plan/intention is rather to move things out of core.
>> To make up for it, the intention is then to provide a new mechanism to
>> "bundle" some GNU ELPA packages into the "default" build of Emacs.
> Well, assuming that happens, can Ement be considered for default
> bundling?

I don't think we will be able to answer that question before it
happens, sadly.  And that's been planned since ... Emacs-26 :-(

There's a branch in the `emacs.git` (I think it's
`feature/core-elpa-by-copy`) which attempts to do that, but IIRC it
needs a bit more work, and more importantly, it needs a clear support on
the part of the head maintainers (because this is a fairly big change in
terms of what it imposes on what you need to do to build "normal Emacs"
from Git).


        Stefan