From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for removing obsolete packages Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:53:25 -0500 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1453071243 1932 80.91.229.3 (17 Jan 2016 22:54:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2016 22:54:03 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 17 23:53:52 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aKwCm-0007Ke-2f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 23:53:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56167 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aKwCl-000689-5F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:53:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50063) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aKwCY-00067n-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:53:39 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aKwCV-0003H2-8H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:53:38 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:44826) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aKwCV-0003Gv-19 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 17:53:35 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aKwCS-00077l-Of for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 23:53:32 +0100 Original-Received: from 23-91-143-239.cpe.pppoe.ca ([23.91.143.239]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 23:53:32 +0100 Original-Received: from monnier by 23-91-143-239.cpe.pppoe.ca with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sun, 17 Jan 2016 23:53:32 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 27 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 23-91-143-239.cpe.pppoe.ca User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:0lKTMnxzeSej2KTXdvtc4jtsHP0= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:198216 Archived-At: > One way to make it unusual (and allow things like advice to be placed in > obsolete and removed later) would be if elisp functionality such as > defadvice had their APIs maintained but implemented on top of newer > functionality. For example, a macro in nadvice.el could re-implement > defadvice on top of the replacement functions. FWIW: defadvice *is* implemented on top of nadvice already. Emacs-23.4's advice.el is 170KB. Emacs-24.5's advice.el is 139KB (+ 24KB of nadvice.el). I originally intended to delay such "re-implementation" of advice.el to some later time, but I quickly realized that it was not an option because otherwise you can't mix defadvice and advice-add on the same function. The problem of a long transition (as is likely to occur for advice.el) could be reduced in the following way: - Rather than completely remove the obsolete package (after N years), move it to GNU ELPA. So people can still get their old code working, tho it takes an extra step. - Implement an nadvice.el forward compatibility package in GNU ELPA (probably implemented on top of defadvice), like I did for cl-lib and cl-generic, so external packages can start using nadvice.el without having to wait for Emacs-24.3 to be considered "too old to support". Stefan