From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to include obligatory PGP verification of packages from any repository Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:17:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87eelvplvh.fsf@posteo.net> <10bdf4ea-e365-cc3d-ec03-4348946fadbe@yandex.ru> <20201019124335.GC19325@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201019163827.GG19325@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201019174745.GJ19325@protected.rcdrun.com> <20201019190452.GO19325@protected.rcdrun.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7725"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: "Philip K." , rms@gnu.org, thibaut.verron@gmail.com, mve1@runbox.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Kangas , Dmitry Gutov To: Jean Louis Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 19 22:24:05 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kUbhN-0001tf-6F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 22:24:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35638 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kUbhM-0008Qy-7Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:24:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58208) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kUbbW-0005FU-BO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:18:02 -0400 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:57110) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kUbbT-0002NU-Hm; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:18:01 -0400 Original-Received: from pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 8B0DE100D3B; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg1.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 181EC10001F; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:17:56 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1603138676; bh=rnvOJTq320SyDWdKQLvLqFfOJDY3/mIM5YN5vrP2dto=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=THJO70WoSitxzEx8GAaK029q5Lgoq1Uv2ec+7bWtRj36oNx6gkiha5MmvzbMTcJ1v VOpZQv4VBlCMChR5Zi2njKw5r4oygvw+nCNZaUzskKSd2KWY10FDE55kpicbziHrf+ +ymTyWSKZvg0lg3PL6i2BpOH9KgxgZ/8ji9foGNXfEGX1x0FmQ80pmo2jK2/DaXpWt IkWijGuwwoUucswAmh36kuewM2Lj5RgimGGr1YKAjsZ3zb7qMZFX5mfA/3Jm7QvGU3 I7ztEzQK/5q+85u4ZZOpGuoXdMuSrgZk0JIkO0cvlVxT90suGOcnUAOY6bSA0RXQED /Rvw/VYV/Qogw== Original-Received: from alfajor (unknown [157.52.9.240]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A9410120235; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 16:17:55 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20201019190452.GO19325@protected.rcdrun.com> (Jean Louis's message of "Mon, 19 Oct 2020 22:04:52 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/19 13:18:36 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:258149 Archived-At: > I would rather expect message shown, just as it is not shown for > unsigned packages. `package.el` should emit a message when installing a package without any signature, since that's the odd and undesirable case. I find it perfectly normal not to say anything when the signature check succeeded. > Regarding packages in GNU ELPA, can I now assume they are all signed? Of course. It's been that way since Emacs-24.4, IIRC. > Is there a policy that GNU ELPA packages should be signed? Not sure what that would mean: *we* sign it, so there's no policy to enforce. At most there are bugs to fix if the sigs are missing or incorrect. > What I expect is a method for user to easily verify and know by which > key was which package signed, such function should exist. What does Debian do in this respect? > I also expect that such verification should be by default, but default > was to accept unsigned, which is security issue in Emacs. 2 reasons: - the sig-checking code (i.e. PGP) might not be installed and we did not want to add it as a prerequisite. - the signature system was introduced relatively shortly before it was deployed for Emacs-24.4, so we did not want to break it for the other ELPA archives. Regarding the second point, AFAICT Melpa still doesn't sign its packages, so its users presumably rely on `https` as their only line of defense. One of the main reasons might be that there is/was no easy way to add other trusted keys to Emacs's keyring (tho the `gnu-elpa-keyring-update` shows it can be done) so even if they signed their packages their users would have to take some extra step to add their key to the trusted keys. Stefan