From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stefan Monnier Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: decision on moving core packages to ELPA; also move to obsolete? Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:46:37 -0500 Message-ID: References: <86a6ugnopl.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83im94b17m.fsf@gnu.org> <834kknatxs.fsf@gnu.org> <83sg86apqb.fsf@gnu.org> <865z52oqfp.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83ft46akpm.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8it8wij.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9184"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: daniele@grinta.net, stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 16 19:48:05 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpbqH-0002IZ-GM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 19:48:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34138 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpbqG-0006Ao-Ci for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:48:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39546) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpbp0-0005F5-3t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:46:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:32107) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpbow-0004Bb-QV; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:46:45 -0500 Original-Received: from pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 585F48090A; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:46:41 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg2.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 75DA1805BE; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:46:39 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1608144399; bh=+qjEiuF6w3myERnrx+LS8roUBRhauK+AgwF7hMiu+yM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=SXVPEf3i2Ha/k8eXuJkuwB1L7n6PgyrFIpm58QfrcH6vFT7t07IzM8u+6UDPmP0r4 wVEzUks+fMDSI4Oxmt0cwLS/6sFwMqPaUagqdNBXqKi5pJ4VDKuo49KLNJDuBkSJnq VSpMXWJ4uXLzFGSihVGcWmhFw6T65ZjNklC4zFjNP3nA1SJhS+CB8DK9S9bS/6a4Gs PScjjiGlNE93OUTS3RHDYiQbjGEoPIxOVlnrwLWn+5d0HibLPXQ1E+WS2San+lUNLv rrDJe4hejdxjnv8rIk6NpZ5QaTGcQB7OCA9urd9GDqO6LIz/uUp8e0V+35eBbIs3TX ua2OSFH/c2MfQ== Original-Received: from alfajor (69-165-136-52.dsl.teksavvy.com [69.165.136.52]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2383A12009E; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 13:46:39 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <83o8it8wij.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 16 Dec 2020 19:56:52 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=132.204.25.50; envelope-from=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca; helo=mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261028 Archived-At: >> What I'm suggesting is the following: >> - the tarball we build will include the same file as before in >> `emacs/lisp`. >> - it will additionally contain a new directory `emacs/elpa` in which >> each bundled package has its own directory (all in the normal format >> of installed packages in ~/.emacs.d/elpa). > So we will have 2 copies of each package's Lisp files in the tarball? No, just one, the one in the `emacs/elpa` directory. >> So until `package-activate-all` is called, the bundled packages will >> just sit there on your file system but Emacs won't "see" them. > This already happens, right? we already call package-activate-all at > startup, right? Yes, between `early-init.el` and `init.el`. >> We could also place some or all of the bundled packages directly inside >> `lisp` > Now I'm confused: how 'lisp/' is different from 'emacs/lisp' you > mentioned above? It's the same thing. I just omitted to write the "emacs/" prefix that time. > What are the pros and cons of each of these 2 alternatives? I think > we should carefully consider them before deciding which one we prefer. Basically, the question is whether the autoloads of those ELPA packages are processed once and for all when we dump Emacs (like we do for all the packages that come with Emacs), or whether that's done during `package-activate-all` (i.e. between `early-init.el` and `init.el`). Doing it at dump time gives better startup times, at the cost of making it impossible for the end-user to prevent activation of a package (they can still undo the activation after the fact, of course, but that needs to be done in ad-hoc ways). I think as a first step we should keep those bundled ELPA packages more like normal ELPA packages (i.e. activate them from `package-activate-all` rather than when dumping Emacs). We can later revise this (even on a per-package basis) once we have more experience. Stefan